Predatory Photographers & How To Handle Them

Filmoto said

Joceline Brooke-Hamilton said

Filmoto said

I think the video was great.Its long yes and needs viewing in its entirety,some of your verbal advice "to models" should be put at the beginning so they DO watch the whole of it.42mins is long but also should give you a idea what to look for-as new models.

Now a questions-naming & shaming?.Why are no details given towards the perpetrators,I know maybe you cant verbally mention someone but maybe hold up a sign naming them?...Maybe sticky ground,legally But a new model viewing this wont know,same as photographers might want to know so they can warn others??. 

People need to be warned of these people surely??

It's all in the video notes for people who don't want to watch the whole video (or indeed, any of the video).

Yes but there are no named perpetrators,in the text or in the video.

How do you warn new models about these guys?. 

I was replying to this part of your query.

The question of naming and shaming has been discussed at length on multiple threads before but as I said in my original post - it's *never* going to be possible to warn every new model about every predatory photographer, given that new models/photographers turn up all the time (and predators often change user names). The point of this video was an attempt to educate new models to spot *patterns* so they can hopefully recognise and challenge predatory behaviour sooner (and as Faith Roswell says, hopefully before the shoot even happens) and have fewer bad experiences as a result.

Nice to see some of the models telling their horror stories and well done Joceline for making the video.

There is another problem though and that's models themselves, who still shoot with some of these photographers even though they know them to be predatory and therefore keep them on sites like this or social media. While it may be easy for them to change their pseudonym, it's not so easy to change their shooting style, which in most cases is what attracts the models.

I have noticed a few images posted on here in the last few weeks from one that was removed, he may have changed his signature on the images, from the breed of a dog, but that didn't stop the models assigning his name to them. Also I would have liked someone or somewhere in the video to say contact models direct, not through messaging, but ask for a phone number and speak directly to one another. 

When it comes to predatory photographers, this one takes the prize for most brazen scumbag.  Check out this release form - absolutely horrific, I'd hope nobody would sign it.

https://twitter.com/dianarotten666/status/1322953202275393537

Joceline Brooke-Hamilton said

I've been working on a new video for my YouTube channel, & have been joined by a fabulous collection of other freelance models - between us we have over 130 years of experience, and we want to use it to light the way for new models.

Content warning; sexual assault

Back in 2004 when I was still a new model, I met a more experienced model for the first time. And she warned me about 3 photographers. "He's perfectly fine, but he'll say your skin looks dry, and he'll try to rub baby oil onto your body. Tell him you'll do it yourself". "He steals models' knickers; I won't work for him any more".  "He's set up a hidden camera in the bathroom where models get changed". As I met more models, I started collecting warnings, and I very much appreciated them. As I gained more experience, I started handing my knowledge on to my sister models in return.  And the network of models, communicating with each other, is one of the most powerful tools we have for keeping each other safe.

But it'll never be possible to warn every new model about every predatory photographer, and by the time newcomers make contact with experienced models, they might already have had some bad experiences.  So the best thing I could think of doing, was to make a collaborative video with my fellow models in which we share our experiences, and what we've learned as a result. Because a lot of bad behaviour on shoots falls into fairly predictable patterns, and when you can anticipate, you can often do a better job of protecting yourself.

Thank you so much to the brilliant models who shared their stories. Some of them are hard to listen to (editing it made me cry), but I really hope that they might help equip other models to challenge predatory behaviour, and stay safer.

Overall, I would say that this issue is NOT confined to the photography / glamour industry. Back in the 1990s, I worked in the IT / Back-End-Processing division of a certain well known bank.

There was always a big Christmas Party (paid for by the company) and a couple of other party-type events (also paid for by the company) each year. Certain individual senior managers (but NOT all) used to like to get drunk at these events and make really out-of-order sexual advances towards junior female colleagues.

I actually saw a young woman (who was in the same team as myself and married as well) being groped by a senior male manager. A few days later, I said to this young woman that , if she wanted to take any action against this manager, I would be a witness. But this young woman decided that it would be too much hassle and could potentially effect her future career.

NB The particular manager concerned was well known for groping female colleagues. Also , as a person this guys was useless as a manager (the saying "Could not organise an alcoholic event in a brewery" comes to mind) and obnoxious as a person.

When you witness things like this, you realise why the UK has gradually slipped back in the OECD rankings. Whilst countries such as Germany, Japan, South Korea etc... have overtaken us.

The people in-charge of too many UK companies are just unable to do their jobs well enough.

Hyena Photography that form sounds like it’s for making porn not the kind of photography from this group. If you weren’t planning on shooting one of those dodgy porn films with that I would expect most models

Would run a mile as

Soon as they saw it

Andy79 said

Hyena Photography that form sounds like it’s for making porn not the kind of photography from this group. If you weren’t planning on shooting one of those dodgy porn films with that I would expect most models

Would run a mile as

Soon as they saw it

Based on what I hear from my hardcore porn friends, a porn model would also 100% run a mile from anything like this. They have boundaries, just like art nude models do.

I wanted to find a hardcore model for my video, parenthetically, but none of them wanted to, so unfortunately I couldn't represent them. I'd have liked to; we're all in the same boat when it comes to level-pushers. However high your levels, it seems that a predator will want to do what you don't want to do, specifically cos you *don't* do that, as far as I can see.

Jocelyn what a great video and I think it's this sort of video that needs to be accessible to any model who has joined . 

It's a shame that predatory photographers weren't named and shamed, understand that photographers can have different names etc but I think if a photographer is going to join a site like PP  they need to use their real name and post a photo of themselves also when joining a copy of their driving licence could be checked by the admin. 

jonathantennantphotography.co.uk said

Jocelyn what a great video and I think it's this sort of video that needs to be accessible to any model who has joined . 

It's a shame that predatory photographers weren't named and shamed, understand that photographers can have different names etc but I think if a photographer is going to join a site like PP  they need to use their real name and post a photo of themselves also when joining a copy of their driving licence could be checked by the admin. 

Jonathan, much as I agree with you the legal implications of naming and shaming the photographers would make it very risky.

 I too would welcome a policy of providing verifiable identification on joining but this would cause GDPR issues and would damage the sites business model whilst causing a huge amount of additional work for the admin team.  
One thing that could help is the site making a list of those who have been kicked off without giving any reason.

Joceline Brooke-Hamilton said

Andy79 said

Hyena Photography that form sounds like it’s for making porn not the kind of photography from this group. If you weren’t planning on shooting one of those dodgy porn films with that I would expect most models

Would run a mile as

Soon as they saw it

Based on what I hear from my hardcore porn friends, a porn model would also 100% run a mile from anything like this. They have boundaries, just like art nude models do.

I wanted to find a hardcore model for my video, parenthetically, but none of them wanted to, so unfortunately I couldn't represent them. I'd have liked to; we're all in the same boat when it comes to level-pushers. However high your levels, it seems that a predator will want to do what you don't want to do, specifically cos you *don't* do that, as far as I can see.

Totally agree - the vast majority of hardcore porn models wouldnt sign that, and would simply refuse to work with the guy.

jonathantennantphotography.co.uk said

Jocelyn what a great video and I think it's this sort of video that needs to be accessible to any model who has joined . 

It's a shame that predatory photographers weren't named and shamed, understand that photographers can have different names etc but I think if a photographer is going to join a site like PP  they need to use their real name and post a photo of themselves also when joining a copy of their driving licence could be checked by the admin. 

I believe that another UK modelling site already distinguishes those members who have chosen to provide proof of ID from those who haven't, and has been providing that facility for a while. Not sure how effective that has been in preventing abuse though - my guess is that most models will be understandably influenced by money regardless and short of it being mandatory on all modelling sites will have had limited impact.

Edited by P R E S T O N

This is great work with a clear message, well done to all involved although it is sad that you all have these horrendous accounts to tell....stay safe all

Roswell Ivory had an important message which might get overlooked - and applies to everyone involved in the modelography world.

"If you know that someone is a creep then stop working with them. Stand with us."

That includes people we might think of as friends.

Simon Carter said

Roswell Ivory had an important message which might get overlooked - and applies to everyone involved in the modelography world.

"If you know that someone is a creep then stop working with them. Stand with us."

That includes people we might think of as friends.

Totally.

It is admirable that you have produced this video to try to help other models. And it's appalling what actually models (often females) have to go through.

I only watched part of the video and it showed cases of inappropriate behaviour on actual shoots so I take it, it was your focus. I wondered if you come across what could be described as adult grooming when modelling and other adult sites are used by some to find their victims?

Been aware of this problem for a long time, Warning models is one thing, maybe new models could contact photographers in that area, because the good photographers can pick up out the dodgy ones very quickly, The area I used to work had a network for photographers and models. anybody could contact the group for advice before agreeing to work with Somebody

This problem has gone on for years, way to long, so much so that I rarely shoot with models anymore.