The post processing dilemma .

The more I tend to shoot the less time I seem to spend editing these days.

I used to over edit all the time, these days I'm lucky if a spend more than two or so minutes on my edits and ONLY use Lightroom.

As you say overediting seems to be killing things, but that's just my humble opinion.

playwithlight said

More and more on front page images it seems to be coming down to how well the post processing is rather than the subject or the concept or lighting. I’ve seen really good shots conceptually that have not made the cut that we’re not over processed and could have come straight out of camera but none the less we’re great images. Have we now got used to heavily retouched photographs that start to look uniform and yes I’m guilty of this also as being the norm and a prerequisite for consideration and is this just as bad as AI. 

TLDR: Yes.

But this is hardly new, it's been going on for years. Essentially to stand out from the crowd you have to have a diagnosable personality disorder and not one of the harmless ones.

I can't say that I've spotted more over-processed images than usual?

I’ve don’t have the fpi widget, but I looked and it’s no different than I last remember.

The way I see things , there’s images i accept are great but on a personal level think they suck. I’m more into the photographers tastes and ideas. generally I think most fpis are great even though I might not have internet in them.
I don’t like heavy editing but I appreciate some of its great work.

but it’s an interesting point. I remember buying a photography book on inner landscapes and I loved it. But then I saw one online review claiming it was all over processed. I was almost horrified somebody said that. But then I got into darkroom printing and after spending 2-3 weekends trying to squeeze some detail out of a print, then put it on the table 2 weeks later and realised I’d nuked it, then another weekend trying to fix it turning it down a few notches,, a while of doing that and your taste and understanding starts to develop in another direction. Anyway now I hate that book too.

So it’s taste, but most people don’t bother trying to broaden or develop there taste, so it’s semi subjective imho.

Well I've taken a quick look at the recent FPIs, and there are three (uploaded 6 months ago, 4 years ago and 5 years ago) that are textbook examples of high end skin retouching. Really good.

I don't generally look very closely at the plastic skin stuff, but many people  must like them.

So...    no big change I believe.

when i started 12 years ago, overly edited pics were still the norm. 

I am very conscious of this.

I don't use the FPI widget. Or the popular images widget actually. (I've also hidden the Competitions menu item in a userscript, and I don't use the Games group -- I want to see more variety so I just have the Recent widget and more rows of that.)

But I just took a look at the first page of the current FPIs. A fair amount of plastic skin as normal, a set of common themes, but some lovely things and some at least extremely well-executed things that don't appeal to me personally.

About as usual. 

---

FPIs have a prevailing aesthetic*, just like coffee shops do. I know I will be told they don't by the people who vote for them, and I know I will be told that the mechanism for narrowing them down doesn't drive the development of an aesthetic, but it's fairly obvious, and it isn't really surprising at all.

The most important thing to understand is that really any identifiable or self-described "category" like this leads to sameness:

https://medium.com/knowable/why-everything-looks-the-same-bad80133dd6e

Other sites, magazines and competitions have their own prevailing aesthetics -- 1x did for years, to the point of being absolutely reductive. Magazines do; the Taylor Wessing Prize has had one.

The thing about shared aesthetics is that you have to find yourself somewhat outside them to notice them at all. But you can't step outside every influence, deliberately or accidentally.

So if you reject over-editing or focus on SOOTC or only shoot film or whatever, you're likely just stepping into another common aesthetic; it just happens not to be the prevailing one. (It's more likely to be just an earlier one.) 

And those of us who reject a prevailing aesthetic may consciously or unconsciously have one of our own that is at least as banal. I'm sure that's how some people will think about my own "style", if it's even defined enough to see.

In short: if you don't like the "beauty edit", or you prefer not to use micro-dodge-and-burn like about a fifth of the FPIs do, then don't do those things. But it is useless to rail against being ignored/outnumbered by those who are participating in that prevailing aesthetic.

Ignore it yourself, or consciously reject it in what you do. Hide the widget entirely! Do your own thing. Put your energies into your own approach. 

* it's probably actually a blend of two common genre aesthetics

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Whats an FPI?

Viages. said

Whats an FPI?

A...   Flagrantly Processed Image! ;)

Unfocussed Mike I think you just described something that’s forever bugged me about PP, 1x, and others for years. Very hard to put into words.

Sometimes it takes an outsider to say something sarcastic about images on the website and your like “omg, he’s got a point and I’ve never even noticed this before” then you can never un-see it .

On a side note sarcasms actually a design tool as well as a bad personality trait. I worked on a Jaguar once that was killed as it looked like a startled koala bear. Basically once a design can no longer be riped apart by sarcasm, it’s usually then beautiful.

Perception said

Basically once a design can no longer be riped apart by sarcasm, it’s usually then beautiful.

Or if not it could just be uncontroversial and safe. Which is one of the things that reinforces the sameness. 

Unfocussed Mike carnt argue with that , Lamborghini miuras got eyelashes, it’s a bit stupid looking for that, but also one of the greatest ever designs. To designers Audi are/where perfect, still a benchmark but also very safe, apple too. Maybe I’m just too designer and less artist nowadays lol

If enough people who feel this way join the team then I imagine they could make a big difference in what ends up on the front page.

Though considering I almost certainly fit into the perceived category outlined above I guess that suggestion should be taken with a pinch of salt.

A Shot in the Dark said

If enough people who feel this way join the team then I imagine they could make a big difference in what ends up on the front page.

Though considering I almost certainly fit into the perceived category outlined above I guess that suggestion should be taken with a pinch of salt.

While I know people say this (Russ for example) I don't believe it's actually true that it would lead to greater variety.

Because if you ask a lot of people to collectively curate things, you are asking them to engage in a common purpose with a directed outcome (the selection). And that common purpose will have unavoidable longer term secondary effects.

It would still ultimately settle down to a prevailing aesthetic. It'd just be a bit different. And people would rail against that one, just on slightly different grounds. 

I suspect if the site took away the Popular Images widget, then you would have more varied FPIs. But the Popular Images widget is the true grease of the purpleport economy.

The best way to avoid being frustrated by it is not to look.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Another "It's not fair" FPI post. Just let it be. You can't change what has happened. Just forget the FPI scenario and get on with what you love to photograph. If I get a positive comment on an image it is so much more significant than the FPI logarithm automation. If you get your 24 hours of FPI fame, so be it. Does it make you a better photographer/model? Or does it just massage your ego. All these people who have to champion themselves by posting about their xxxth FPI, what does it prove? Chill out and enjoy your photography/modelling and be happy with the improvement in your images. It was a couple of years before I realised FPIs existed and I had some. I just want to take photographs that I and maybe others enjoy rather than chase FPIs.