Alternative ways of housing / living

Dave Lynes said

22 years ago, I got nagged into getting onto the property ladder at the grand old age of 26 and I'm glad we did when we did. How people even afford a mortgage these days is completely beyond my level of understanding - and that's without factoring in inflation and all the other increases we've got to deal with now. The key is to live within the boundaries of what you can actually afford...if you want something and question if you really NEED the shiny thing, or whether you just WANT it. The hard part is nailing that bit! And put another jumper or fleece on instead of turning up the heating!

The reason for high prices is a shortage of houses and there are three main reasons, population growth and a refusal of successive government to build enough social housing and buy to let landlords where landlords buy houses using the rent of the their tenants. 

Inflation helps people who are already buying houses by inflating away debt. This was why buying a house in the 70s was so profitable. Of course, wages were increasing too in the 70s, now the government is allowing inflation to rise but holding back wages and increasing taxes on lower incomes.

Edited by K-arl

K-arl said

Carlos said

YorVikIng said

Carlos said

Without second/holiday homes there is no private long term rental/short term holiday rental sector.

How many if those criticising second homes live in private rented accommodation and/or rent flats/cottages when on holiday.  If none of you do I will be surprised but will be happy to apologise….

Edited by Carlos

Huh? Is it a law of the land that any profit from rental holiday accomodation must be siphoned away from the community and passed on to a rich guy in London / England / Germany / wheverever-but-not-here [choose one or add extra options as needed]

I’m not sure of your point.  Do you use Amazon? Facebook? Starbucks? Morrisons? Buy Cadbury’s chocolate? I could go on.  Those that buy property and rent it out are fulfilling a need in the community, for permanent rental not available in the social sector or to bring in tourism.  Where the money goes is no more relevant than it is for you if you use the services of any, any at all, business not based in your community ie 99% of what you buy.  Get real…

Of course they aren't, they are looking after themselves. Buy to let should be banned as it extends the rentier economy which is bad for the real economy. When idle assets are more profitable than work, it degrades the productive economy and disincentivises work.

All economies are rigged, there is no such thing as a free economy. To improve the economy the government needs to incentivise work and disincentivise holding idle assets. Of course, the current government won't do that as nearly all ministers and MPs are all part of the rentier problem themselves.

Getting back to the OP. one of the reasons they have the problem they have is because of the rentier economy. 

 

Edited by K-arl

Ah, I remember that bit of Student Marxist Politics 101….remind me of the page number again……

Carlos said

K-arl said

Carlos said

YorVikIng said

Carlos said

Without second/holiday homes there is no private long term rental/short term holiday rental sector.

How many if those criticising second homes live in private rented accommodation and/or rent flats/cottages when on holiday.  If none of you do I will be surprised but will be happy to apologise….

Edited by Carlos

Huh? Is it a law of the land that any profit from rental holiday accomodation must be siphoned away from the community and passed on to a rich guy in London / England / Germany / wheverever-but-not-here [choose one or add extra options as needed]

I’m not sure of your point.  Do you use Amazon? Facebook? Starbucks? Morrisons? Buy Cadbury’s chocolate? I could go on.  Those that buy property and rent it out are fulfilling a need in the community, for permanent rental not available in the social sector or to bring in tourism.  Where the money goes is no more relevant than it is for you if you use the services of any, any at all, business not based in your community ie 99% of what you buy.  Get real…

Of course they aren't, they are looking after themselves. Buy to let should be banned as it extends the rentier economy which is bad for the real economy. When idle assets are more profitable than work, it degrades the productive economy and disincentivises work.

All economies are rigged, there is no such thing as a free economy. To improve the economy the government needs to incentivise work and disincentivise holding idle assets. Of course, the current government won't do that as nearly all ministers and MPs are all part of the rentier problem themselves.

Getting back to the OP. one of the reasons they have the problem they have is because of the rentier economy. 

 

Edited by K-arl

Ah, I remember that bit of Student Marxist Politics 101….remind me of the page number again……

It has nothing to do with Marxist politics and everything to do with how capitalism works (roll eyes)

Funny how capitalists don't understand capitalism!

Edited by K-arl

Carlos I'm going to surprise you now. Let me first say obviously, I think something needs to be done about second home ownership.

I know this as I've lived both sides of the debate. I was a landlord for two flats in portsmouth for a number of years. I was a good landlord, fixed anything that broke and didn't raise rent over a 4 year period. I ran them at a modest profit. I still believe there's a huge imbalance with BTL.

New laws have come in for BTL that have made them much less profitable. I was going to sell them anyway to fund moving but with the change in laws I would have sold to avoid inevitable annual losses. I sold those two flats to two first time buyers. Me coming out of BTL gave two families there first step on the ladder. Your point of some sort of disaster happening if landlords sell is utterly unfounded.

So, having been a landlord previously and now someone struggling to find somewhere to live, I know my thoughts on this matter are both correct and ethical.

Emma Jayne buying the cheapest house in the most expensive (nicest) area you can afford is good advice. if getting a mortgage is difficult then over time you may be able to save money and add it to your partners inheritance. you can get a house in need of work, in auction from about £25/30k+ but nicer areas are more expensive, probably £50k+, have a look at a few property auction sites to give you an idea as to what you could get, where and for how much. I would forget about ideas such as building your own, converting odd buildings etc as it could actually be quite expensive plus not a guarantee that you would get the permissions required. the government use to have a savings scheme for help to buy but I think that's been shelved now though there may be some sort of account or safe fund you can add money to for house buying where the cash isn't taxed - not sure on the current schemes, there may be none but it's worth checking out. another option could be part purchase / rent to buy which is a form of social housing - enquire to housing associations or perhaps your local council to see if there's anything that your eligible for. lastly, you could get lucky.... maybe try the lottery once in a while and if none of the above work there's still hope - you may meet someone in life that leaves you everything in their will - this does happen as sometimes people have no one to pass their estate on to and decide to bequeath everything to someone they know, so keep up the day job, you never know what might happen!

YorVikIng said

Carlos my point is simply that it is easy to understand why people get living in relatively poor areas get angry when they see rich outsiders come in and drive up house prices so that their own children will never own a house. It is also easy to understand why some of that anger, rightly or wrongly, gets pointed at said outsiders. And when rich bastard blame them for shopping the only places they can afford, it’s likely to make thyme more angry.

Normally you come across as being both intelligent and smart. But your last post is as tone deaf as Marie Antionette suggesting that the starving masses should just book a table at The Ritz.

Goodness me, what a good job you don't live in Spain, Portugal, Cyprus, Italy etc you'd be well pissed off.

Dave Lynes

The irony being that many people can afford a mortgage because they're already paying more in rent. However lenders don't always see it that way...

indemnity Those countries do have a lot of pissed off people. Many poorer people in those countries do all they can to avoid the official state and its laws.

Canal boats / narrow boats.

I looked in to this decades ago, and if could have got the cash, would have been happy to have got one.

If you do go down this route, make sure you research it fully ... Including looking in to waterproofing. When I was looking in to this, it was recommended that the boat be dry docked, scraped and re-waterproofed every 5 years. At the time, this was a couple of grand.

Coatings have changed since then, so that advice may longer be true - but it is something that could catch you of you are unaware.

parkway there's really only the north east and rougher parts of the north west where auction properties are still that cheap tbh

SteveDeansPhotography said

parkway there's really only the north east and rougher parts of the north west where auction properties are still that cheap tbh

Just googled. The most empty homes are in Yorkshire and Humberside and the North West. The North East has less population density, which is why they have less but per capita they are up there. Cornwall has significant empty properties but most are second homes. Kensington also has a significant number of empty homes but that is through the absent rich, where homes are often investments or for laundering dirty money. Most ordinary empty homes are in areas with little or no work and many are beyond economic repair. According to one business site, most houses are empty because of piecemeal or ill thought out housing policies.

Not far from where I live in the Netherlands, I've witnessed a beautiful new mixed housing estate (bought and social housing) go up in around six weeks (if my memory is correct). However, there is a housing crisis in the Netherlands for similar reasons as the UK, years of rightwing housing policies of treating houses as investments, not as homes. 

Edited by K-arl

K-arl definitely Hull must have lots. But you wouldn't want to live in those streets

Edited by SteveDeansPhotography

Emma Jayne another option if your renting and can't afford to buy at the moment is to move to another rental that is nicer / better than your current set up. I know that doesn't get you what you want but it's worth considering if things are bad at your current place. conversely, staying put but appraising your current situation may also be fruitful. sometimes we take things for granted and underestimate the value of what we already hold. there are always worse situations to be in.

Not wishing to entirely divert the conversation from anything of use to Emma but;

Whilst I won't argue in terms of overall reasons as to why private landlords enter the market (or did previously) they do assist in filling the gap that government housing schemes leave (the cause of the gap being a separate issue) and whilst there are "bad" landlords just as there are "bad" tenants there are also plenty that offer good quality living space that would otherwise not be available.

Also not all renters are desperate and without alternative options - many professionals choose to rent whilst they determine their longer term location, those entering into new relationships often want to do so with less commitment than buying, and those exiting relationships can want somewhere temporary whilst they take stock.

Also, not a political comment, Government have actually made attempts to assist would-be buyers, from offering equity loans (although I really think that you need to look very carefully at the implications), loan guarantees to lenders, enhanced savings schemes etc. as well as what I see as punitive taxation of rental income and the introduction of additional stamp duty on second properties which has slowed the number of new landlords to the market as well as the number of existing landlords purchasing additional properties.

Models in the Landscape said

Not wishing to entirely divert the conversation from anything of use to Emma but;

Whilst I won't argue in terms of overall reasons as to why private landlords enter the market (or did previously) they do assist in filling the gap that government housing schemes leave (the cause of the gap being a separate issue) and whilst there are "bad" landlords just as there are "bad" tenants there are also plenty that offer good quality living space that would otherwise not be available.

This is not true. The living accommodation exists, private landlords buy it, often using the rents paid by their tenants. Basically houses and apartments are bought through leverage, ie. debt, debt effectively paid for by the tenants. It is part of rentier economy which ends up replacing the productive economy, reducing economic productivity. It is bad for the economy and Britain suffers more than most from this as it has a government that facilitates and supports the rentier economy. Buy to let is part of the housing problem, not part of the solution.

While I wouldn't condemn BTL landlords as they are only going about their legal business, I would condemn the government for allowing and facilitating BTL. The only solution to the housing problem is to build more houses, something the government refuses to do because it will undermine houses as investment and will effect government supporters most. The private construction industry has told the government on many occasions, it is uneconomic for the private construction industry to solve the housing crisis and it can only be solved with government money. 

A parliamentary report of a few years ago came to the conclusion that building social housing would be cost neutral. Despite this the government refuses to build adequate social housing, this refusal is clearly down to what is seen as short term political gain, not what is good for the country.

Edited by K-arl