We should be helping each other, not hurting each other

Several times these weeks there has been an irony from some posts on threads. You think how can some can be so oblivious & lack self awareness.

Edited by Lenswonder

JME Studios said

Orson Carter blimey if you're not getting casting responses it really has slowed down.

Not at all. 

It's not a fault of the site and it's not a reflection on models. It's simply that I'm asking for something that nobody is interested in. That situation is totally down to me.  

As a generalisation, if something doesn't go my way my first reaction is to look in the mirror. I do not automatically look for someone else to blame. 

Edited by Orson Carter

Orson Carter said

JME Studios said

Orson Carter blimey if you're not getting casting responses it really has slowed down.

Not at all. 

It's not a fault of the site and it's not a reflection on models. It's simply that I'm asking for something that nobody is interested in. That situation is totally down to me.  

As a generalisation, if something doesn't go my way my first reaction is to look in the mirror. I do not automatically look for someone else to blame. 

Edited by Orson Carter

Have you considered casting for a Merkin shoot?

;)

indemnity as far as the statistics presented in previous pages from PP, the majority of people on here do not do or want to do higher levels. What's happening is the higher level accounts are more active.

But my reason for posting this discussion is to at least give everyone a chance to connect with each other.

Lenswonder and yet more of it.

Why on earth do you guys think it's acceptable or the right thing to do?

Like literally there's only a small amount of you that do it -

You, Orson and a few others that I won't name as they haven't been involved here but it only amounts to about 5 or 6 people and this small group of people give the site and the forums a horrific name on social media and puts so many people off from joining in on the forums.

So the question is why do you do it? It is a perverse pleasure that some of you get from trying to put others down? Do you like to be the "big men that bring the small women down to size"?

I mean what is it that makes you and the others feel the need to make someone else feel bad?

I'm suffering horrific PMDD today, PMDD makes someone feel suicidal and actually causes many women to lose their lives because they struggle with the urge to kill themselves so badly and they don't even know why or have any control over it.

Women do die from it.

And I am struggling with exactly those feelings today, to a point that I may need to go to a & e simply to keep myself safe. And it is a physical illness, not a mental one with no treatment.

And yet I log in today and see passive aggressive comments aimed directly at me which Mr Martin does very regularly, and yes, whilst that comment may not be what tips me over the edge and shouldn't be, why should I have to experience it simply because he feels he personally dislikes me?

Then I find yet another one from you which again, doesn't need to happen.

You and him and other people do NOT need to abuse others on social media either directly or passive aggressively.

We all say comments that can be construed as harsh at times and that is pat and parcel of social media but the continual "baiting" of some on here, you, him and others is a disgrace and as grown men you should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves.

Edited by Margo Jost

MaristarOxley said

indemnity as far as the statistics presented in previous pages from PP, the majority of people on here do not do or want to do higher levels. What's happening is the higher level accounts are more active.

But my reason for posting this discussion is to at least give everyone a chance to connect with each other.

What is patently clear and I'll repeat for the avoidance of doubt....models sell and the photographers buy, they sell more of what's in demand. If someone wishes to sell something else, then they need to make it an attractive option such as the clothed events I mentioned. Personal opinions will not change what people wish to do.

If the statistics you mention are correct then there would be no higher levels.

This whole site is for the hosting and promoting of model photography over a range of genres and styles, those genres and styles will be based on demand, popularity and need for income. unless I've missed something? People will connect for whatever reason they have, not for the benefit of others, that's the world today, harsh and unreasonable as some might think it is.

So members have the choice to change their needs or attempt to convince others to change theirs, that's the reality, and the latter might be too big a wish.

Admin Russ Freeman  it might be better for this discussion to be closed.

Edited by Barney57

Jessica Knight IG for me anyway is an easier and more creative platform and I'm sorry to know you are getting those unwarranted messages. The algorithms do play a big part on there. It's a case of steering the platform towards what you want to see. I had to work at it quite hard to get rid of those dms.

This platform has a place for us too, if we all help each other out in the General space, as well as selecting groups to follow.

Afrofilmviewer

Quote:This is a good point. I would however just say personally for me I don't necessarily feel there's no demand. Often the logistical side of it comes into play. Someone like myself is happy to shoot a range of levels. However, one of the main things stopping me (besides my personal life) is things like stipulations in profiles, distance, minimum shoot times etc. I think demand is often around but I also feel there's a distinct lack of compromise.

I understand your point.

I will not guess why models put such high stipulations onto their shoot requirements.

For me, I am very happy to shoot without paying. I'm willing to shoot for pay, but it's not a priority. I would attach stipulations when a photographer accepts the basic agreement, but then pushes more, either during communication or at the shoot.

I've had a handful of sessions, where the photographer will keep trying to get me to do certain things and then get quite pissed off when I state clearly that I don't/won't do those things.

Orson Carter

Quote of the day:

[I was going to say that if this thread is 'toxic', my willy's a kipper. But that could have prompted a few off-topic comments. So I won't.

🧡

Barney57 I don't know if it's at that point yet, but the tone today has definitely changed.

Huw said

Redhillphoto said

Simon Carter the glamour models do glamour mainly because the photographers are happy to pay money for lingerie and nudes. Not because they love it so much. I am sure that many models prefer fashion or editorial than lingerie and nude.

Ten years ago I shot art nudes (£40 per hour) with a really great model whose day rate for commercial fashion was £1,000 per day - and she worked most weeks. She shot art nudes for fun.

More than one art nude model I know does it because they prefer it.
Admittedly, new serious art nude models seem not to be entering the market at the present for various reasons.

Edited by Huw

Over the years I have had 2 muses.  Both did nude - and pretty much only nude - from a standing start having seen my b&w work.  While I prefer always to pay models (tfp etc is such a faff) my work with my muses was often collaborative to the point where they would come to me with ideas on a ‘no charge’ basis and I would ‘pay’ them with images after the fact.

This idea that nude models have to be bribed or forced kicking and screaming into nude work is so far from my experience as to be nonsense.  Are they a particular cast of mind?  Yes!  Are they a rare breed? Yes!  Do they each have their own unique backstory that leads them to enjoy nude work so much? Yes!  

But, in my experience, they do nude because they enjoy it AND then find that it is lucrative, not because they are forced to do it to pay the rent.

Margo Jost

I want to support you on this.

I certainly don't want this thread to cause you suffering in any form.

I have also been going down a spiral with invasive thoughts towards myself.

This Post was supposed to bring something good for all, even the not so productive comments.

I am choosing to bypass those words laid out to trip us up and refocus the discussion towards some insightful opinions.

Edited by MaristarOxley

MaristarOxley "I will not guess why models put such high stipulations onto their shoot requirements."

I have a feeling but it's not tangible fact. So I won't spew.

But I feel indemnity point is a good one. Is there *that* many models looking for TFP fashion?

I'm still of the belief that not many models are that bothered by groups and connecting. I agree that learning a bit about who you work with helps greatly, but I'm not too sure many models want to. And I don't feel imploring photographers to change will help.