We should be helping each other, not hurting each other

MaristarOxley more than happy to pay towards fashion. But I've been let down by people for clothed shoots as well as non clothed.

Definitely agree that things like fashion need good planning. However, like I perhaps mentioned earlier it's been said by people here that models do not have the time to interact with people.

So to try and head back to the point, I can't see them spending more time in groups to network. If people haven't got time for so called ping pong emails or providing references. I can't see how they have time for groups.

Huw said

Gothic Image said

Huw said

MaristarOxley said

....the style of photography gravitated towards nude work or implied, or fantasy. That's fine, but it soon left me not finding photographers doing a more commercial fashion or editorial style...

Jessica Knight said

Totally agree with the op. This place had little room for those of us who have other skills and prefer not to get our kit off....

This is in no way an attack, but haven't both of you correctly identified that PP doesn't really cater for the kind of work that you wish to be paid to shoot?

Are you sure about that? There are several of us who shoot fashion and pay models to do so.

Yes, but the models you are paying to shoot fashion appear to be mainly in their 20s, not around 60....   

Part of the same problem, I fear.
People pay to shoot what they want to shoot.

I shot someone last year who never shoots nudes (with clothes on), and I'd leap at the chance of shooting any other model who has done over 200 free-fall parachute jumps,

Quite, but I didn't mention anything about age, did I?

Gothic Image

"Are you sure about that? There are several of us who shoot fashion and pay models to do so."

Agree. But it seems easier to generalise about a cabal of creepy togs and the percentage of nudity being rampant.

Some of this conversation feels like posts I've seen in the past where people ask in January why no one wants to shoot with them.

They ask if there's anything wrong with them etc. There isn't but who's got £300 spare after Christmas?

So it's slightly similar here. Age and levels get brought up as hurdles but the likes of Gothic Image and Indemnity state other plausible reasons and it's kinda dismissed. And it feels like it's because it doesn't fit the narrative.

Jessica Knight said

...fashion ... needs more skill than just getting ready for a shower .

Yep.

Possibly less time in the Gym though.

I get a bit irritated by the amount of knocking Purpleport gets.
It does a great job connecting models with the photographers who want to shoot with them.
That's fairly obvious from the irrelevance of the other model sites on the UK market.

The characterisation of "nude models" as talentless bimbos is equally unfair.
Not really "helping each other".

There's a fair number of Oxford or Cambridge first degrees, Masters and a few PhDs among the models on my portfolio.
Plus degrees from other universities in the UK and abroad.
Many with years of ballet and dance experience.
Not to add that nearly all of them are successful small business owners who traveland work internationally.
Generally spending hours per week in the gym maintaining an athlete's level of fitness.

Huw said

I get a bit irritated by the amount of knocking Purpleport gets.
It does a great job connecting models with the photographers who want to shoot with them.
That's fairly obvious from the irrelevance of the other model sites on the UK market.

The characterisation of "nude models" as talentless bimbos is equally unfair.
Not really "helping each other".

There's a fair number of Oxford or Cambridge first degrees, Masters and a few PhDs among the models on my portfolio.
Plus degrees from other universities in the UK and abroad.
Many with years of ballet and dance experience.
Not to add that nearly all of them are successful small business owners who traveland work internationally.
Generally spending hours per week in the gym maintaining an athlete's level of fitness.

^ Wot 'e said. All of it.

Well, let me offer a different perspective, I recently graduated with a degree in holistic psychology with a specialization in expressive arts therapy and double minor in cognitive neuroscience and photography, and I am in a masters degree in mindfulness as well. Instead of finding the negative to focus, focus on the positive, change the way you view things put it into a more positive mindset as opposed to looking at the negative, I know this maybe hard to do but if you keep seeing things as negative how do you expect things to change because what you focus on grows and expands. I am not saying you are wrong for what you are saying and that I do not sympathize with you because I do. But what I am saying is that sometimes a change perspective is all we need to start seeing the things we would like to see in the world.

Sheila

IG:Iamsheilaj

Iamsheilaj.com/welcome

I Am Sheila J said

Well, let me offer a different perspective, I recently graduated with a degree in holistic psychology with a specialization in expressive arts therapy and double minor in cognitive neuroscience and photography, and I am in a masters degree in mindfulness as well. Instead of finding the negative to focus, focus on the positive, change the way you view things put it into a more positive mindset as opposed to looking at the negative, I know this maybe hard to do but if you keep seeing things as negative how do you expect things to change because what you focus on grows and expands. I am not saying you are wrong for what you are saying and that I do not sympathize with you because I do. But what I am saying is that sometimes a change perspective is all we need to start seeing the things we would like to see in the world.

Sheila

Yesssssssssssss! All of it. 

I'm confused, because not for the first time in this thread people seem to be seeing negative things that I'm not.  Very odd ...

Huw said

I get a bit irritated by the amount of knocking Purpleport gets.
It does a great job connecting models with the photographers who want to shoot with them.
That's fairly obvious from the irrelevance of the other model sites on the UK market.

The characterisation of "nude models" as talentless bimbos is equally unfair.
Not really "helping each other".

There's a fair number of Oxford or Cambridge first degrees, Masters and a few PhDs among the models on my portfolio.
Plus degrees from other universities in the UK and abroad.
Many with years of ballet and dance experience.
Not to add that nearly all of them are successful small business owners who traveland work internationally.
Generally spending hours per week in the gym maintaining an athlete's level of fitness.

That's all well and good but the majority on here are apparently unreasonable, argumentative, fat, baldy, old guys who own cameras and pay young slim models to get their kit off. Given the two perspectives I suppose in the grand scheme of things everyone gets on OK, given the foundation they're working from. It ain't too bad considering... ;) 

indemnity said

Huw said

I get a bit irritated by the amount of knocking Purpleport gets.
It does a great job connecting models with the photographers who want to shoot with them.
That's fairly obvious from the irrelevance of the other model sites on the UK market.

The characterisation of "nude models" as talentless bimbos is equally unfair.
Not really "helping each other".

There's a fair number of Oxford or Cambridge first degrees, Masters and a few PhDs among the models on my portfolio.
Plus degrees from other universities in the UK and abroad.
Many with years of ballet and dance experience.
Not to add that nearly all of them are successful small business owners who traveland work internationally.
Generally spending hours per week in the gym maintaining an athlete's level of fitness.

That's all well and good but the majority on here are apparently unreasonable, argumentative, fat, baldy, old guys who own cameras and pay young slim models to get their kit off. Given the two perspectives I suppose in the grand scheme of things everyone gets on OK, given the foundation they're working from. It ain't too bad considering... ;) 

ROFL Indemnity spot on all round

I’ve read through pretty much this whole thread and I’m mentally exhausted - I can’t be the only one. At least this is generally how the forums focusing on any kind of discussion make me feel. I engage sometimes, but I’d be lying if I didn’t admit feeling anxious & drained over the threat of an innocuous discussion ending in a cycle of never-ending personal trolling. It doesn’t happen often for me, but it did a few times about a decade ago and that was enough to mostly put me off long-term.. then you witness similar happening to others. When something becomes a pattern, it’s hard to override the expectation that things will never change, especially as the freelance industry has changed so much in the last few years and models have so many other options to network - whatever your opinion on them, forums really are mostly a thing of the past.

I’m quite a sensitive person, (yay a snowflake!) and receiving constructive critique, (which I can handle) is a whole different kettle of fish to receiving ongoing passive aggressive jibes.

I can’t speak for other models, but I know many full-timers don’t have the time, means or energy to constantly engage anyway; plus I know at least some who feel the same as I do above.

In addition to this, some of us perhaps know things others don’t, which influences our decision on where on the Internet we choose to engage. Working and engaging outside of work are two different things after all. If you don’t like someone in a typical workplace, you can’t just not turn up for work, but you probably wouldn’t attend any group or work social events, which is more of an uncontrolled environment. I think a similar thing is happening here.

I remember Model Mayhem when it used to be super active - it was great, and I remember thinking even back around 8 / 9 years ago when I was shooting a lot as a photographer, how lacking in good make-up artists, hairdressers & stylists the other sites are. MM was really the only place you could easily get a full team together for a fabulous styled fashion shoot.

I’m not sure this is inherently to do with nude vs fashion though. I don’t have the answers but fashion is becoming more prevalent here, especially through beautifully styled events which I believe help to develop photographers’ inspiration to go plan their own 1-2-1 styled shoots with models. A tiny observation from me is that quite a few amateur (and good!) photographers really struggle with the styling aspect of a shoot and I suppose it can be quite intimidating if you’re not used to it. Fashion, at least in my mind isn’t just wearing some clothes vs not - it’s an entire mood - there are colour combinations & cuts & shapes to consider, and for whatever reason quite a few photographers in my experience seem to be reluctant to get involved with this side (I know there are exceptions!)

In general though, models have moved away from networking sites I think - we are still present & engaging for booked work, but our ‘shop window’ engagement & interactive discussion lies elsewhere (mostly social media) and it’s genuinely for a combination of reasons. But all the time the forums are a less-than-desirable place to be, it’s gonna put the nail in the coffin.

Things change.. c’est la vie.

Just as a bit of perspective perhaps, I’m feeling anxiety even preparing to hit the send button on this, in case anyone wants to pick up on something that I’ve worded badly in their opinion or caused them to become triggered. I know text & an absence of tone can be easily misinterpreted anywhere, but it feels more jarring on a forum based discussion for some reason. Maybe it’s a control thing - you can delete / block an unsavoury comment or character on social media and completely remove their existence. Whilst you can block people here, it’s never really a full block, is it. And it’s a much smaller community - becomes awkward when you’ve blocked half the contributing forum users LOL whereas every man & his dog is on social media - it’s vast; a block isn’t going to cause any ripples.. it’s much easier to shut out the negativity & get on with your day.

♥ Chiara Elisabetta    Good post, valid coments  :)

Yes, excelling at fashion is pretty difficult.
Too hard for me  ;)

♥ Chiara Elisabetta I agree with what you said which I why I don’t get involved in most discussions due to the “regulars”. ♥️♥️

♥ Chiara Elisabetta said

I’ve read through pretty much this whole thread and I’m mentally exhausted - I can’t be the only one. At least this is generally how the forums focusing on any kind of discussion make me feel. I engage sometimes, but I’d be lying if I didn’t admit feeling anxious & drained over the threat of an innocuous discussion ending in a cycle of never-ending personal trolling. It doesn’t happen often for me, but it did a few times about a decade ago and that was enough to mostly put me off long-term.. then you witness similar happening to others. When something becomes a pattern, it’s hard to override the expectation that things will never change, especially as the freelance industry has changed so much in the last few years and models have so many other options to network - whatever your opinion on them, forums really are mostly a thing of the past.

I’m quite a sensitive person, (yay a snowflake!) and receiving constructive critique, (which I can handle) is a whole different kettle of fish to receiving ongoing passive aggressive jibes.

I can’t speak for other models, but I know many full-timers don’t have the time, means or energy to constantly engage anyway; plus I know at least some who feel the same as I do above.

In addition to this, some of us perhaps know things others don’t, which influences our decision on where on the Internet we choose to engage. Working and engaging outside of work are two different things after all. If you don’t like someone in a typical workplace, you can’t just not turn up for work, but you probably wouldn’t attend any group or work social events, which is more of an uncontrolled environment. I think a similar thing is happening here.

I remember Model Mayhem when it used to be super active - it was great, and I remember thinking even back around 8 / 9 years ago when I was shooting a lot as a photographer, how lacking in good make-up artists, hairdressers & stylists the other sites are. MM was really the only place you could easily get a full team together for a fabulous styled fashion shoot.

I’m not sure this is inherently to do with nude vs fashion though. I don’t have the answers but fashion is becoming more prevalent here, especially through beautifully styled events which I believe help to develop photographers’ inspiration to go plan their own 1-2-1 styled shoots with models. A tiny observation from me is that quite a few amateur (and good!) photographers really struggle with the styling aspect of a shoot and I suppose it can be quite intimidating if you’re not used to it. Fashion, at least in my mind isn’t just wearing some clothes vs not - it’s an entire mood - there are colour combinations & cuts & shapes to consider, and for whatever reason quite a few photographers in my experience seem to be reluctant to get involved with this side (I know there are exceptions!)

In general though, models have moved away from networking sites I think - we are still present & engaging for booked work, but our ‘shop window’ engagement & interactive discussion lies elsewhere (mostly social media) and it’s genuinely for a combination of reasons. But all the time the forums are a less-than-desirable place to be, it’s gonna put the nail in the coffin.

Things change.. c’est la vie.

Just as a bit of perspective perhaps, I’m feeling anxiety even preparing to hit the send button on this, in case anyone wants to pick up on something that I’ve worded badly in their opinion or caused them to become triggered. I know text & an absence of tone can be easily misinterpreted anywhere, but it feels more jarring on a forum based discussion for some reason. Maybe it’s a control thing - you can delete / block an unsavoury comment or character on social media and completely remove their existence. Whilst you can block people here, it’s never really a full block, is it. And it’s a much smaller community - becomes awkward when you’ve blocked half the contributing forum users LOL whereas every man & his dog is on social media - it’s vast; a block isn’t going to cause any ripples.. it’s much easier to shut out the negativity & get on with your day.

Totally agree with this Chiara. The forum posts can go down a lot of different paths that lose focus on the actual point of the post in the first place.

I have to say I try to avoid commenting on the posts as it, like you have said, can lead to waves of negativity and smart alec comments which aren't always justified.

Edited by RAWing Waves