We should be helping each other, not hurting each other

tandi Thank you so much. I appreciate you explaining. Thanks for your contribution to the thread as well.👍🏽

Kevin Connery said

Russ Freeman said

MaristarOxley , I have no idea why MM was incapable of noticing banned members trying to sneak back in, but we're pretty good at it, and the community has an uncanny ability to spot and report them to our lovely Admin, too.

"That's so interesting to know. The way it appears on here, it looks like most models are doing nude."

As Virgil said; "Trust not too much to appearances."

Not incapable, just dealing with large volumes. Small percentages of large numbers are still large numbers. I'm sure it's similar on all popular online communities; someone will sneak back in.

It's kind of an arms race: better tools and monitoring to catch new fake accounts, and new tricks by the banned folks to try to get around them. It wasn't unusual for there to be a few dozen fakes to be caught every week trying to get back on. Fortunately, as you note, the community is pretty darn good at spotting behavioral issues, or duplicate/near-duplicate images, especially in the forums. But it's not 100%, and some are going to slip through, at least for a little while. :( 

Exactly. There is one Facebook life art group whose "Let's Welcome Our New Members" included a guy who is notorious for his behaviour. Unfortunately for him, too many people know of him and a few of us flagged this up to the group moderator and now he's been banned from the group. However, he may be worming his way into other groups since he never seems to give up.

MaristarOxley said

Russ Freeman it's a response to others saying that there's a lot of negativity. Hey, I got blocked by someone on here, earlier and I'm pretty sure I was not doing anything wrong.

Edited by MaristarOxley

Blocking is often a sign that you've said or done something right. 

priceb61 That's an excellent perspective and I shall try and think that way, more.

Totally agree with the op. This place had little room for those of us who have other skills and prefer not to get our kit off. The number of blocks I have had simply for statng I don't usually do topless. As for of instagram is a better place for fashion. I find it an unmoderated hotbed of middle eastern guys who want to marry me or guys who ws t to push every level.

Edited by Jessica Knight

Simon Carter said

PP’s main role is to facilitate connections between ‘glamour’ models seeking paid work with photographers who want to pay for the experience.

IG is much better for fashion networking.

Absolutely bang on. Interesting observation, to be honest I've not used IG closing first account after never posting and second account still unused. I must admit I see a large number of members on here being attracted to higher levels both photographers and models as you can't have one without the other. That in my mind demonstrates the 'norm' so to speak so must represent the choice of the majority. It would be unfair and inaccurate to single out photographers on here as they are the buyers and the models the sellers, and you can't buy anything that's not for sale. So the only way to reduce the amount of higher levels would be to restrict all content to safe for work only. I have a strange feeling this might decimate membership though could be totally wrong.

Redhillphoto said

snip.....the glamour models do glamour mainly because the photographers are happy to pay money for lingerie and nudes. Not because they love it so much. I am sure that many models prefer fashion or editorial than lingerie and nude.

I think this is totally inaccurate. Models sell their services, they are selling what provides return. They are not obligated to shoot anything but their preference, and this demonstrates that it's purely based on the money contrary to any suggestions otherwise, and there's nothing wrong with that.

What we have in this thread is a wish for payment or TF/collaborations for styles and genres the OP prefers, that's fine, though nobody is obligated to accept these terms styles/genres if they as the buyer have no wish for them. Personally I tend to choose not to shoot higher levels but I see no reason to tell everybody else not to do so, or moan about why they do.

So in answer and to be bang on topic to original question....post castings in exactly the format of your choice, if there's no response, then there is no demand. It's as simple as that, or the casting needs modifying with USP to attract attention, it's not the fault of the membership, not the fault of the OP, the castings are just not working.

There are events on here posted for exclusive fashion/styled clothing in exclusive venues that are fully and over subscribed providing opportunities for those interested to attend and participate. This is evidence of demand for clothed shoots, and they are successful with top notch imagery results too.

On the be nice to each other stance, I don't think overall you'll find a better place, OK sometimes things get a bit out of shape but to be fair that's going to happen anywhere and it's fairly well moderated without draconian censorship on here. There are enough tools provided by this site to modify the user's experience, perhaps the failure to use these tools in the best way is part of the problem and down to user error. People need to get a grip, stop moaning and get on with life, it is what you make it.

indemnity "post castings in exactly the format of your choice, if there's no response, then there is no demand. It's as simple as that, or the casting needs modifying with USP to attract attention, it's not the fault of the membership, not the fault of the OP, the castings are just not working."

This is a good point. I would however just say personally for me I don't necessarily feel there's no demand. Often the logistical side of it comes into play. Someone like myself is happy to shoot a range of levels. However, one of the main things stopping me (besides my personal life) is things like stipulations in profiles, distance, minimum shoot times etc. I think demand is often around but I also feel there's a distinct lack of compromise.

Tangentially: it's easy to complain about levels being the problem. It often places the onus on the photographer and not anything else, like say a badly marketed casting.

indemnity said

... [snipped]...

So in answer and to be bang on topic to original question....post castings in exactly the format of your choice, if there's no response, then there is no demand. It's as simple as that, or the casting needs modifying with USP to attract attention, it's not the fault of the membership, not the fault of the OP, the castings are just not working.

... [snipped]...

Yep. I've got a CC running on here and the response has been almost nil. Should I blame the models on here? Is the lack of response because of models' unrealistic requirements? No - of course not. Clearly, the shoot that I'm looking for isn't of interest to anyone. It's as simple as that. And that is totally down to me. 

indemnity said

... [snipped]...

On the be nice to each other stance, I don't think overall you'll find a better place, OK sometimes things get a bit out of shape but to be fair that's going to happen anywhere and it's fairly well moderated without draconian censorship on here. There are enough tools provided by this site to modify the user's experience, perhaps the failure to use these tools in the best way is part of the problem and down to user error. People need to get a grip, stop moaning and get on with life, it is what you make it.

Too bl**dy right! 

Several pages back someone opined that this very thread was toxic and was an example of the general toxicity of the forums.  Yes - there have been a few blunt-ish comments on this thread, but over 18 pages almost everyone has put their points across in a civil manner.

To describe this thread as toxic is, IMO, jumping on the 'let's be negative and have a moan' bandwagon. Sadly, that bandwagon seems to trundle through a lot of forum threads.  

[I was going to say that if this thread is 'toxic', my willy's a kipper. But that could have prompted a few off-topic comments. So I won't.]   

MaristarOxley said

....the style of photography gravitated towards nude work or implied, or fantasy. That's fine, but it soon left me not finding photographers doing a more commercial fashion or editorial style...

Jessica Knight said

Totally agree with the op. This place had little room for those of us who have other skills and prefer not to get our kit off....

This is in no way an attack, but haven't both of you correctly identified that PP doesn't really cater for the kind of work that you wish to be paid to shoot?

Which leaves two options:

- find somewhere else that caters mainly for the kind of work you wish to shoot

- pay photographers to shoot what you wish them to shoot with you.

It doesn't seem too odd an idea to pay people to do something they don't really want to do.
That's how jobs work.
I expect to pay people to shoot what I want, and I'd need to be paid a fairly significant amount to shoot "glamour".

Complaining about PP to the limited number of people who visit the forums is probably unproductive.

Redhillphoto said

Simon Carter the glamour models do glamour mainly because the photographers are happy to pay money for lingerie and nudes. Not because they love it so much. I am sure that many models prefer fashion or editorial than lingerie and nude.

Ten years ago I shot art nudes (£40 per hour) with a really great model whose day rate for commercial fashion was £1,000 per day - and she worked most weeks. She shot art nudes for fun.

More than one art nude model I know does it because they prefer it.
Admittedly, new serious art nude models seem not to be entering the market at the present for various reasons.

Edited by Huw

Orson Carter blimey if you're not getting casting responses it really has slowed down.

Orson Carter oh knock it off digging at me will you. You do it constantly.

I can comment with my thoughts as much as anyone else without the constant passive aggressiveness which is the whole reason why so many models don't interact in the forums in the first place.

And on that note, I'm logging off for the day because I'm not in a space of mind to deal with your digging at me today. Most of the time I can take it with a smile and I do but not today.

Edited by Margo Jost

MaristarOxley

"What we as a group"

There are remarks about fashion, nice, hard work, assorted expenses etc. key is that it is a group, or team, activity.

I think in the commercial world those teams are soft around the edges, with people having preferences for whom they work with, but teams forming and reforming and tending to know each other. And the volume of work is such that that works.

Are any features of the site aimed or effective at encouraging semipermanent teams to form and work?

That might be more a club activity, with a regular day/evening, a few members, and MUA/stylist/designer/steamer talent getting a regular commitment (financial, marriage, whatever).

Studios might try to be a base for such a club or SIG.

Or a group might commit to premises.

All this is substantial stuff and making the armature that supports it over years is non-trivial, and looks like work.