We should be helping each other, not hurting each other

JME Studios said

Lot to unpack here.

To go back to the original point, I can see why the forums are a bit intimidating. Forums in general are also an old skool way of having discussions now, social media has taken over the role to a large degree.

Doesn't surprise me that Model Chat is completely dead.

As stated, nude is where the centre of gravity is. Whilst there are some good fashion and lingerie models on here, broadly speaking a model who is willing to pose topless or nude will get more work than one who is not. That's the reality.

Of course there's nothing stopping this place becoming more buoyant, but it needs enough models in particular to put their head above the parapet.

I agree with you re: centre of gravity.  And looking at the genesis of PP that is to be expected.  My understanding is that PP was the brainchild of Russ Freeman and a breakaway group of like-minded individuals unhappy with what PureStorm was delivering and how it was delivered.  PureStorm was at its heart a nude photography site.  QED.

I use to spend alot of time in the groups as I felt like I was part of a like minded community and that if my opinions and experience could help others - then my time was well spent.

I remember times when some models use to get a hard time from certain members and those of us who cared use to try and calm the waters. Unfortunately we've lost some fantastic models over the years from these encounters.

Over more recent times though - things have felt like they've changed. To me, it now feels like a members only club and that others contributions are nolonger valued.

I didn't know anything about hobbyist modelling when I joined and learnt so much from the groups, some people are a little bit passionate and single minded then again so am I, but I think they are entitled to an opinion, so they shouldn't mind if I have one too.

For me there is far too much nudity on PP and that must be off putting to a number of photographers and models who don't want to be associated with that kind of thing, so they either put up with it or leave, everyone is free to choose!

I did once ask for a SFW version of PP purely for those wishing to keep themselves away from NSFW, but I was slaughtered in the comments, lol.

tandi said

I didn't know anything about hobbyist modelling when I joined and learnt so much from the groups, some people are a little bit passionate and single minded then again so am I, but I think they are entitled to an opinion, so they shouldn't mind if I have one too.

For me there is far too much nudity on PP and that must be off putting to a number of photographers and models who don't want to be associated with that kind of thing, so they either put up with it or leave, everyone is free to choose!

I did once ask for a SFW version of PP purely for those wishing to keep themselves away from NSFW, but I was slaughtered in the comments, lol.

but there is a safe version, just don't tick NSFW. By default it is SFW.  From that perspective I think PP gets a bad rap, people just can't help themselves, they tick NSFW and then go 

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww nakeed laydeez     :)

MaristarOxley said

However we get so so so so many dm talking s"#t about wanting to create something amazing if we take our clothes off ( even me at 58 years old), so one's skin gets toughened.

Depends on the model. I have shot great nudes of models aged 58 and 62 this year.
That's not for everyone, granted - and no offense taken.

tandi said

I didn't know anything about hobbyist modelling when I joined and learnt so much from the groups, some people are a little bit passionate and single minded then again so am I, but I think they are entitled to an opinion, so they shouldn't mind if I have one too.

For me there is far too much nudity on PP and that must be off putting to a number of photographers and models who don't want to be associated with that kind of thing, so they either put up with it or leave, everyone is free to choose!

I did once ask for a SFW version of PP purely for those wishing to keep themselves away from NSFW, but I was slaughtered in the comments, lol.

I could totally see how the front page, if it were the initial contact for a new model, could completely put them off—especially if the recent images widget is active when they first view it. It can sometimes look like a bad day on Tinder (not that I would know), but I mean it can appear as a lot of nude, selfie-type images and not much beauty or fashion. A new model could easily feel intimidated by that especially given that the images used to intice them in were most likely beautifully finished FPI's. I've known many models, and although some may have ended up dabbling in or transitioning to nude work, most started with fashion, then progressed to lingerie, and eventually, some moved to nude. You have to be brave to jump straight into nude modeling, which might be why model numbers are dropping so dramatically.

Edited by ANDY00

Carlos, your understanding is not quite right. I was dissatisfied with PS, which was mostly a glamour site, due to its lack of functionality and nothing else. You may as well have said, "PS used the internet, PP uses the internet. QED."

Around 40% of the images uploaded to PP are SFW, but that's not a measure of nudity, doubly so because lingerie, some swimwear, latex, and anything too sexy is tagged as NSFW and we have a much lower NSFW test than IG or FB e.g. most of MM's IG would likely be NSFW.

7% of images on PP are tagged with the keyword tag nude, but many images are not tagged at all, so that's not fair either.

Interestingly, just over 30% of PP model accounts have nude selected. Maybe, since so few models wish to shoot nude, we should just ban nude photos altogether :-p

The place would likely be a lot more positive if we banned those who appear to dislike PP or who attack it, as well as the habitual moaners and complainers from the groups or even from the site altogether. When we did that over a decade ago, it had such a positive outcome that it still brings a smile to my face :-)

Edited by Russ Freeman

Russ Freeman said

Just throwing some data out there...

The private Model Chat group has 29,023 members and 2,502 posts with 15,617 replies.

The private Photographer Chat group has 41,682 members and 14,338 posts with 234,931 replies.

The groups have a "care in the community" function for elderly male photographers with too much time on their hands.

Including myself   ;)

MaristarOxley

Everyone's skin gets toughened. I have no doubt there's some crap requests doled out to models. Lots of bad etiquette and outright rudeness.

That said I'm always reminded of one instance of a few I've seen, in which a model had a rant on here basically generalising the photographers as novices with images that "aren't going anywhere" and that she was sick of photographers. Not one or two photographers. Photographers. When this happens here there's almost a collective amnesia. That such things aren't said by models and then it usually moves on to how awful photographers are to models etc. So again, if I state that this is coming from experience and people come back and say "I don't see that. And my comments are divisive for models" I'm firstly not sure where to go with that and secondly not really up for encouraging more people to participate in groups.

I think the idea of a more collaborative group is admirable. But i think bending it to what you require is difficult.

People love to hold up levels as the issue. But personally that's only part of it. To only some people.

I've seen popular models vent that they would love to do bridal/fashion or something outside of the box. But its never TFP. And if it's not TFP It's costing me £250 basic. There are models that post looking for certain requirements but decide that either the photographer doesn't match the criteria or just ghost people. There's often people who do not wish to compromise on what they want either.

This isn't a complaint, but just me wondering how will there be an expectation for groups to change, particularly when there's a quiet belief that only one "side" has to?

Granted, I don't use PP as much as I would like to, but comparing this site to the other modelling platforms, I would say this is the best one and I've not had any issues with PP or any of the members on here.

I do think for the "newer age" Forums and a load of pages and text for people to read sadly is redundant to a lot of people - the current age is short/quick info or entertainment dumps before they move on to the next, so things like this would be easily skipped by the majority.

I also have seen a few posts previously surrounding by the issue with costs and model fees, which I do think factor in a decrease in certain types of work and shoots.

Every so often I throw a casting out to everyone just to put myself out in the mix to see if anyone needs a male model for any work, but as time has gone on I've sadly had less responses - whether there's no work/need for one or I'm not the right fit I of course won't know, but it is what it is.

I would love to see more opportunities on PP from a modelling sense, but I guess it also depends on others generating "the work" so models like myself and others can apply and hopefully be fit for the bill.

Either way, I don't take it too heart, it's just the nature of the business and finding what little lane I fit in :)

Afrofilmviewer What we can do is encourage models to be interested. It benefits them if there's discourse that makes them feel comfortable. Ok, so everyone on here are adults and should be tough enough to take swipes and criticism, but it's so easy to let things slip because that's just how it is on here ( and other platforms).

JME Studios I'm all for more buoyancy on here 😀

Russ Freeman thanks for sharing this. Says a lot

Michael_990 I wasn't aware I asked for a critique on my modelling.

I have an agency that I get my paid bookings with.

I tfp here and on IG. I am not complaining about not getting work from here.

Perhaps revisit some of the thread here to get more of an idea of what the topic is about. 😌

Margo Jost I can't say I've seen that either. I am sure it does happen, but there are clearly more the other way around.