The dark side of modelling

I get called fat and I should tone up a lot by photographers recently and different ones that has made me think they are right!

After 18 years of a model I have retired and won’t shoot again because of this

In short yes. Touching, inapproroite comments etc. That is why I tend these days to keep my clothes ON unless I know them very well

Edited by Jessica Knight

The shoe could also be put on the other foot. I've been insulted by models too. My photography criticised, level pushing, graphic messages about nudity I have no interest in and even blamed for situations that the model caused, that weren't my fault!

If by creating this thread, you think only models suffer, I can tell you, you're wrong!

Last post made me chuckle

I create this for models to share similar experiences and have a Safe environment to discuss hurtful experiences

Instead I seemed to have had my comments pulled apart by some photographers, really clutching at straws with basic points. I know not every part of my body is equal : doesn't need pointing out on a modelling shoot.

One comment took away something special. So thank you - you said you were going to try harder to be more aware with your language.

Absolutely thrilled to hear that, despite the unpleasant and somewhat blame game comments, which sadly I wasn't surprised to receive (purely from photographers interestingly and not models..).

So no i'm not expecting someone else to deal with my shit. The fact i've opened up publicly on here about this is proof of that. I hope other models feel OK to discuss their experiences and how things can be improved.

Shame on any of you for attacking my right to express that and defending the obviously shitty behaviour of others.

It's not subtle to talk negatively about a models figure in front of her.

It's insulting and unnecessary

Please show some compassion.

TBH I've stopped shooting because I'm finding it very hard to communicate what I need from my models. I was spending a lot of money and getting distinctly mediocre outcomes. In hindsight, I was caring too much about the model's personal opinion of me and not enough about the art. I guess the trick is to find a model/photographer who understands you and you both want to work together. I've worked with most of the active models in my area and not found that, so no idea what to do in future. 

I'm pretty sure if I said what I actually wanted it would have been poorly received and I would be classed as an asshole photographer. 

Edited by Bear Necessities Studios

Honestly I'm not saying that you can't express yourself here and say how you feel. In fact I think it's good that you have done.... I just want you to know though that it happens, on both sides of the coin.

I think there are several things to unpack here:

• If a photographer makes comments saying that a model's appearance isn't what they wanted, surely they're not only rude but stupid? Why didn't they just book the correct model in the first place? (I'm assuming, of course that the model's stats and other portfolio details are up to date!)
• All successful models soon learn to separate themselves as a person from the image they project as a model.  There was a thread on here recently where a model who was turned down for a casting because of her tattoos accused the photographer of being judgemental. He wasn't - the model's image simply didn't suit the brief, he wasn't judging her as a person. If you think that rejections and comments on PP are bad, try being a runway model!  Any comments should always be considered in context.
• The mentions of vulnerability and power dynamics worry me. A model should never feel vulnerable during a shoot regardless of what they may or may not be wearing.  If they do, then either the photographer doesn't know how to relate to the model, or the model isn't actually happy working to those levels. In either case the solution is just to walk away, a model should never, ever be feeling vulnerable.

I once had a model ( awesome ) in my early nearly non verbal days that kept on sitting so close to me like we were glued together seriously made me really uncomfortable but the shoot was good so I thought to shoot again with her and I asked her why she kept sitting so close to me she immediately apologised then started laughing while explaining she was "checking me out" in case I was a baddy I still laugh about this today and think she was really brave to do this I have had a couple of models that have been so professional that on arrival they like to have a chat about do's and don'ts just a fantastic way to get started thank you models (you know who you are )

I’m sorry to hear you’ve had these experiences Lo la but it’s good that you’ve spoken up about it.

Modelling really shouldn’t be any different from any other profession. No-one would think it’s OK to comment on an office colleague’s appearance (without expecting a phone call from HR) and no-one would hire a lawyer and say that they worked with a much better lawyer last week. For some reason, some photographers think modelling should be different and I think it’s to do with the power dynamics that you’ve mentioned.

Edited by Chris Green

Lo la it's totally wrong for a photographer to behave that way, although I wonder if they're true photographers anyway. I've never commented on a models appearance and it's not anyones place to do so.

I hope you don't have to go through a bad experience again.

Chris Green said

I’m sorry to hear you’ve had these experiences Lo la but it’s good that you’ve spoken up about it.

Modelling really shouldn’t be any different from any other profession. No-one would think it’s OK to comment on an office colleague’s appearance (without expecting a phone call from HR) and no-one would hire a lawyer and say that they worked with a much better lawyer last week. For some reason, some photographers think modelling should be different and I think it’s to do with the power dynamics that you’ve mentioned.

Edited by Chris Green

I'm sure there is a kind of man who seems to feel better if he makes other people - especially women, and younger ones more than older ones - feel worse about themselves. 

It's very hard to know what is and is not appropriate in the workplace, I worked in on place where they tolerated things which belonged in the 1960s, and another American owned and very PC. In the latter a female colleague who I got on well with came in with a new hair style, and I said "New hair suits you", and she burst out "Thank God for that! No one has said a word about it and I thought I must look awful!" At which point other people started saying "No we'd noticed but we didn't dare say". Another place a peer of my boss would sometimes where leopard-print shoes to the office and they put a smile on my face, and I told her, again HR safe. There are 'compliments' which make people uncomfortable (and I'm sure models get plenty of those too)- but often that's a sign of a bad general attitude on one side - but something which is positive proportionate, and occasional isn't improper. 

And people do say to lawyers / accountants - "This other one I worked with did such and such" without suggesting the current one is doing a poor job.    

I really don’t understand why when someone addresses and raises awareness of an issue people have to come along and say “well things happen to photographers too”

The point of this post isn’t to suggest that negative things only happen to models. Can we not listen/discuss a particular topic that affects models without having to turn the tables and say “models can be bad too”?

I think it’s widely known you get bad situations from both sides and unfortunately there are bad eggs amongst all industries.

If you were to raise a concern and issue I’m sure you wouldn’t find it helpful if someone just came along and said “well guess what? You guys can be just as bad” it’s just not helpful and feels invalidating.

Serenity. +1

I have the same response when a photographer comes on here and complains about models “no showing”. Basically, “did you leave a reference? “. Usually in those cases, the shoot was booked on Instagram, with a non-PP model, but they don’t mention that until page four.

Nobody has a right to be an arse just because they are paying someone else for a service.

Lo la sadly this is why most models don’t bother posting to the groups