Travel costs a discussion

Carlos said

I always get an all inclusive quote before agreeing to a shoot.  I haven’t used the AA calculator but my sums produced a minimum of £15 and a max of £20, so she is taking the proverbial.

Yes, me too, I'll only ever go with a mutually agreed, total  sum, for a shoot.

Allesandro B said

don't know why people keep referring to the 45p hmrc rule which is for employees (and simplified expenses for the self employed) and only the first 10,000 miles anyway. https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-business-travel-mileage/rules-for-tax

If you are paying 45p a mile you are being mugged off.

Because that’s about what it costs to run a modern car that will be reliable enough for business use?

Have you actually worked out what your car costs to run, including depreciation, servicing, insurance?

I suspect a (large) chunk of the £70 is to pay for the 'time' element, (40 mins each way). Now ASKING for payment for travelling time up front  is one thing and it is up to the photographer to accept that proposed charge but imho it's a different matter to try and "wedge" it into an inflated travel/milage sum.

Things like this, my personal feeling, don't predispose a positive atmosphere for a shoot. 

Unless the model is driving a formula 1 car then I suspect she is taking urine extraction to a new level! I drive a 1.5 litre turbo diesel. A full tank for around 80 quid gets me at least 550 to 600 miles.

Huw said

Allesandro B said

don't know why people keep referring to the 45p hmrc rule which is for employees (and simplified expenses for the self employed) and only the first 10,000 miles anyway. https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-business-travel-mileage/rules-for-tax

If you are paying 45p a mile you are being mugged off.

Because that’s about what it costs to run a modern car that will be reliable enough for business use?

Have you actually worked out what your car costs to run, including depreciation, servicing, insurance?

I think I can safely say I have a pretty good idea of car running costs and the tax implications for individuals and companies.

But all of that's pretty much irrelevant in this scenario because the vast majority of models here are not full time professional models worrying about their tax return

Edited by Allesandro 

Edited by Allesandro B

Huw said

Allesandro B said

don't know why people keep referring to the 45p hmrc rule which is for employees (and simplified expenses for the self employed) and only the first 10,000 miles anyway. https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-business-travel-mileage/rules-for-tax

If you are paying 45p a mile you are being mugged off.

Because that’s about what it costs to run a modern car that will be reliable enough for business use?

Have you actually worked out what your car costs to run, including depreciation, servicing, insurance?

I also meant it as a sort of reasonable ceiling for what can be charged as travel expenses. 

I am loath to do the "cup of coffee" comparison because I think it's largely silly, but comparing food costs to travel costs feels a little less unreasonable. At the HMRC rate, that fifty mile, 40 minute round trip is about six cups of coffee, if that, in many chains. 

The problem here isn't the cost, not really. (Really would not be if it was at the HMRC costing.)

If someone has to cover legitimate expenses to do a shoot, you discuss them up front and get it fixed.

It's the last-minute, non-itemised, surprise nature of the thing that is the issue here.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Huw said

Allesandro B said

don't know why people keep referring to the 45p hmrc rule which is for employees (and simplified expenses for the self employed) and only the first 10,000 miles anyway. https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-business-travel-mileage/rules-for-tax

If you are paying 45p a mile you are being mugged off.

Because that’s about what it costs to run a modern car that will be reliable enough for business use?

Have you actually worked out what your car costs to run, including depreciation, servicing, insurance?

Depreciation, servicing and insurance are constant factors that each motorist has to bear whether they are driving the vehicle or not. The only marginal cost is fuel. If someone got public transport to a location - I wouldn't expect to pay those elements on, say, a bus.

TheFuntographer said

Huw said

Allesandro B said

don't know why people keep referring to the 45p hmrc rule which is for employees (and simplified expenses for the self employed) and only the first 10,000 miles anyway. https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-business-travel-mileage/rules-for-tax

If you are paying 45p a mile you are being mugged off.

Because that’s about what it costs to run a modern car that will be reliable enough for business use?

Have you actually worked out what your car costs to run, including depreciation, servicing, insurance?

Depreciation, servicing and insurance are constant factors that each motorist has to bear whether they are driving the vehicle or not. The only marginal cost is fuel. If someone got public transport to a location - I wouldn't expect to pay those elements on, say, a bus.

You do pay those elements as part of the bus fare, or else the bus company can’t buy new buses, and it goes broke..

TheFuntographer said

Huw said

Allesandro B said

don't know why people keep referring to the 45p hmrc rule which is for employees (and simplified expenses for the self employed) and only the first 10,000 miles anyway. https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-business-travel-mileage/rules-for-tax

If you are paying 45p a mile you are being mugged off.

Because that’s about what it costs to run a modern car that will be reliable enough for business use?

Have you actually worked out what your car costs to run, including depreciation, servicing, insurance?

Depreciation, servicing and insurance are constant factors that each motorist has to bear whether they are driving the vehicle or not. The only marginal cost is fuel.

Ehh? Service on a vehicle is clearly at least partly a marginal cost. And depreciation is pretty much literally defined in terms of wear and tear. 

Unfocussed Mike said

TheFuntographer said

Huw said

Allesandro B said

don't know why people keep referring to the 45p hmrc rule which is for employees (and simplified expenses for the self employed) and only the first 10,000 miles anyway. https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-business-travel-mileage/rules-for-tax

If you are paying 45p a mile you are being mugged off.

Because that’s about what it costs to run a modern car that will be reliable enough for business use?

Have you actually worked out what your car costs to run, including depreciation, servicing, insurance?

Depreciation, servicing and insurance are constant factors that each motorist has to bear whether they are driving the vehicle or not. The only marginal cost is fuel.

Ehh? Service on a vehicle is clearly at least partly a marginal cost. And depreciation is pretty much literally defined in terms of wear and tear. 

Unless you buy a car with limited availability - depreciation starts immediately - and continues inexorably until the parts are worth more than the whole. Wear and tear does have an influence on the rate though.

I charge 15p a mile (put it up from 14p a mile last month) and I'm running an 18 year old diesel that can get 1000 miles from a full tank which costs about £84

Some people take the mick! As others have suggested, it does sound like your model is trying to charge you for her travel time as well and move goal posts to get you to cancel to take onus off of her

I cover local travel costs but ask for advance notice so I can get discounted tickets if possible. It's not the model's fault that public transport is expensive AF here. But as I usually book months in advance that's no issue.

Almost as expensive as a Plumbers call out rate...;)

I generally book touring models, but I would be willing to cover reasonable expenses otherwise, £70, isn't reasonable unless I was flying someone up here, I can get a return flight to London for £70, probably less. 

Art Photo Noir said

Guys

I'm interested in peoples general opinions. I had a shoot booked and had agreed to pay a contribution towards fuel, The morning of the shoot I get a message from the model telling me she expected £70.00 towards her fuel. It's a 50 mile round trip (40 mins in each direction). Now I agree I should have confirmed this before the day of the shoot (lesson learned) but I do think this is extortionate.

Am I wrong ? what amount does everyone think is acceptable ?

Thank you

"acceptable" is what YOU think is so.

here is my method of working out what i am happy to
pay as fuel costs:

i look at google maps fastest route and calculate the distance door-to-door
i use 35mpg as the average car's consumption and dont care whether
they use the petrol guzzler or the magic electric vehicle.
fuel cost per litre is taken as what i remember seeing it to be
the day i am doing the calculation or a rounded up to the 
nearest 10p so say as an example  £1.50/litre.

i then do the maths using  1uk gallon = 4.55 litres

i usually will not offer to pay "true costs of the journey by car"
only offering fuel costs.

but will offer the return journey's fuel cost rounded up to the next
banknote as i pay in cash.

the payment is always made clear how it
is calculated, and agreed before the shoot is booked.

i generally dont agree to last-minute changes of plans/agreements.