Is it Fatism?

Mark671 said

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You don't need a hob to eat an apple, or an orange, or a banana. Or a pineapple. Or good bread. You can buy a bag of carrots and eat them raw. You can eat muesli without a single additive in it. 

It's a question of cultural conditioning. ...

We get more out of our food than other hominids because we cook most of it.

This is connected to there being more of us than other hominids.

Too many of us are bad...

bad john no guarantees, but you look like being fine. That's not professional advice! Own risk!  ;)

Fat, unfit A-types who are determined not to lose to ayouinger male and ignore heart disease warnong signs are pretty much the at risk group.

Besides, it's important to keep doing what is important to oneself.
I'm considering breaking a nutty yearling Welsh Cob filly for myself to ride (at 69).
No interest in sensible horses, or those spoilt by others.
Even if broken bones heal more slowly.

Covid....   I had it Christmas 2 years ago. Fairly mild.
Six months later, I still struggled to walk up hills.
Took over a year to get back.

Asked friends at a pathology conference - so an "educated sample". Lot of very fit 30-40 year old French. More than 20 people.
30% of them still had reduced exercise tolerance a year later.

One thing I noticed - and others said they had the same.
I didn't get the "signal" to start breathing more deeply - I had to get into the habit of doing it deliberately. That helped a lot.

(There is a possible reason - increased thickness of alveolar walls, CO2 still gets out, O2 doesn't get through as easily.
So your CO2 is normal, and that's the bit that tells you"breathe deeply" when it goes up, but you are short of oxygen.
Difficult to prove though.)

Edited by Huw

Huw I was investigated for long Covid but the results were inconclusive (which I expected).

It is disappointing that I am not back to my old fitness but I think that I am still well above average for my age.

There are some guys over 80 in my squash club who can beat me. Of course, a lot of that is technique; they make me run a lot while doing little running themselves.

Considering my lifestyle, which includes crashing bikes (with and without engines), it is surprising that I have never broken a bone. All the crashes were off-road and did not involve other vehicles; just me being silly.

Horses have put me in hospital a few times....  still worth it.

I had lots of lung and heart investigations - nothing except mild long covid to explain it.
(Every male in the family for generations, including me, has serious lung allergies - horses, hay and dogs for me - got lots of all three. Just pass the drugs).

Unfocussed Mike said

Mark671 said

You don't need a hob to eat an apple, or an orange, or a banana. Or a pineapple. Or good bread. You can buy a bag of carrots and eat them raw. You can eat muesli without a single additive in it. 

And yet if Jack Monroe talks about cooking on a budget and the reality of what food poverty actually looks like, the internet calls it left wing and finds a way to brutalise her. Older people want the poor to just eat better because it's a mindset thing, a morality question, but not to ever let it be a social policy message because that's inappropriate.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

But the subtext seems to be 'only the rich can afford to eat well'. It isn't true. 

Would street food in India or Vietnam be healthier than the insanely expensive takeaways i can buy from Marks and Spencer or Waitrose?

It would be healthier because it is cooked from scratch. Healthier ingredients, lack of preservatives and artificial flavour enhancers.

If fast food was like that there wouldn't be a problem with it, but it isn't. It isn't because the food would be too perishable to survive the supply chain which ensures profits for everyone involved in it. 

It is a social policy issue in so far as successive governments have been too afraid to challenge the dominance of the food production industry. 

Mark671 said

Unfocussed Mike said

Mark671 said

You don't need a hob to eat an apple, or an orange, or a banana. Or a pineapple. Or good bread. You can buy a bag of carrots and eat them raw. You can eat muesli without a single additive in it. 

And yet if Jack Monroe talks about cooking on a budget and the reality of what food poverty actually looks like, the internet calls it left wing and finds a way to brutalise her. Older people want the poor to just eat better because it's a mindset thing, a morality question, but not to ever let it be a social policy message because that's inappropriate.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

But the subtext seems to be 'only the rich can afford to eat well'. It isn't true. 

Not at all. It is that the poor (a state of existence that is not solely defined in terms of lack of access to money) cannot.

Sorry but a bag of carrots isn’t eating well. It’s a bag of carrots. Most of the nutrition in there needs cooking to access it.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

If you have somewhere to store it, you can eat well.

My local butcher does meat packs; 5kg of chicken breast then something else [like 2kg of pork loin steaks or 2.5kg of lean steak mince] ... £40. £43.50 delivered.

The chicken is high quality and not pumped full of water like most supermarkets can legally do.

There's 5 of us in my family and this sort of deal keeps us going for at least a fortnight. Ok 80 quid on meat for some might seem excessive, but if you have a big enough freezer, cook over and fridge/ freeze so you have some ready next time.

I eat very little processed meat (sausages and or bacon once a week), and use pasta or veg as a filler.

However my BMI is 34.8, despite cycling on average 150 miles a week, and walking* at least a mile a day.

Resting heart rate is around 57bpm. Last blood pressure was Agust and it was 118/75

* walking more than a few hundred meters unaided is difficult and painful following the accident, and I have to use a stick.

Edited by Stu H

Unfocussed Mike said

Mark671 said

Unfocussed Mike said

Mark671 said

You don't need a hob to eat an apple, or an orange, or a banana. Or a pineapple. Or good bread. You can buy a bag of carrots and eat them raw. You can eat muesli without a single additive in it. 

And yet if Jack Monroe talks about cooking on a budget and the reality of what food poverty actually looks like, the internet calls it left wing and finds a way to brutalise her. Older people want the poor to just eat better because it's a mindset thing, a morality question, but not to ever let it be a social policy message because that's inappropriate.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

But the subtext seems to be 'only the rich can afford to eat well'. It isn't true. 

Not at all. It is that the poor (a state of existence that is not solely defined in terms of lack of access to money) cannot.

Sorry but a bag of carrots isn’t eating well. It’s a bag of carrots. Most of the nutrition in there needs cooking to access it.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Ok.

Re the squash comments, the best squash player at my local club is in his late 50's and has been playing squash since he was a child.

Ok so where's the problem?

His dad died on the squash court of a cardiac arrhythmia at a young age 😬

When asked about how he manages to play squash given the above circumstances, he said "well I think it's probably likely I'll go the same way and it's great that I'll just go out doing something I enjoy".

You have to admire his acceptance but not entirely sure I could do the same 😬

If anyone's *that* bored, feel free to have a look at my fitness blog:

https://www.richardtherunner.com/

Margo Jost said

Re the squash comments, the best squash player at my local club is in his late 50's and has been playing squash since he was a child.

Ok so where's the problem?

His dad died on the squash court of a cardiac arrhythmia at a young age 😬

When asked about how he manages to play squash given the above circumstances, he said "well I think it's probably likely I'll go the same way and it's great that I'll just go out doing something I enjoy".

You have to admire his acceptance but not entirely sure I could do the same 😬

As an old man, there must be some risk to my squash but there is no history of heart trouble in my mother's or father's families so I am not worried.  I will die of something some day and doing so on a squash court is far from the worst possibility.  

The reason that I gave up motorbikes is not that they might kill me (much more likely than squash) but that they might horribly injure me without killing me.  I find that possibility much more scary than death.  

One of my sisters does the Great North Run most years.  One time, I mentioned that four people had died.  She was not concerned and thought that they were probably likely to die soon anyway.  The run might have just brought it on slightly.  It has not stopped her entering.  

Oddly, the Isle of Man TT kills only one or two people per year, less than the four of the Great North Run (*).  It would be odd to deduce that the TT was safer than the GNR.  I guess that the explanation is that the entrants to the TT are typically fit and unlikely to die except by crashing.  The entrants to the GNR include many unfit people.  

(*) I have not checked stats and I don't know whether 4 is an average or typical number.  It was just the number one year.  

RHM.Photo said

Huw said

bad john my wife made me promise to give up motorbikes at 20 (she was nursing in Bristol).

After I died on - or more accurately off - my motorbike, my wife was asked why she was letting me ride motorbikes again. She replied that it was my choice and my passion; why would she stop me?

I used to love playing squash when I was in my 20s and was sad to give it up because there weren't any cheap and local facilities.  My ankles love me for it.

I'd like to play it again but at 62 and with many reconstituted bits and other knackered ones, that would not be a good idea.

As to the OP's question, others have nailed it on the head: the over 75s have made it that far probably because they're not overweight or have heart problems.

50 to 60 years old is the sweet point it seems to me: if you make it past that, you may do well.

Oh and I blame McDonalds and the other fast food chains for the rise in obesity.

Edited by RHM.Photo

Actuarial you are spot on.  In principle the longer you have actually lived the longer you are projected to live beyond that….if that makes sense.

bad john said

 

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Oddly, the Isle of Man TT kills only one or two people per year, less than the four of the Great North Run (*).  It would be odd to deduce that the TT was safer than the GNR.  I guess that the explanation is that the entrants to the TT are typically fit and unlikely to die except by crashing.  The entrants to the GNR include many unfit people.  

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Rather a difference in population numbers - the denominator - though.

Even if you add in the Southern 100 there's getting on for 2 orders of magnitude difference, so if the risk was equal, 10-20 times as many deaths among the 60 000 runners in the big marathon as the motorbike thing.

Indeed, the difference in time of exposure to risk might add in some bias, with it not taking long to get round the Island a few times, but the people most at risk in the run taking another order or so to finish.

MidgePhoto said

bad john said

 

...

Oddly, the Isle of Man TT kills only one or two people per year, less than the four of the Great North Run (*).  It would be odd to deduce that the TT was safer than the GNR.  I guess that the explanation is that the entrants to the TT are typically fit and unlikely to die except by crashing.  The entrants to the GNR include many unfit people.  

...

Rather a difference in population numbers - the denominator - though.

Even if you add in the Southern 100 there's getting on for 2 orders of magnitude difference, so if the risk was equal, 10-20 times as many deaths among the 60 000 runners in the big marathon as the motorbike thing.

Indeed, the difference in time of exposure to risk might add in some bias, with it not taking long to get round the Island a few times, but the people most at risk in the run taking another order or so to finish.

Good points but it is a handy opportunity to deceive with statistics and claim that running is more dangerous than driving motorcycles at ridiculously high speeds.  Counter evidence is that I don't know anyone who has died while running but I know several who had died on motorcycles.  One case was two brothers.  The first managed to crash into an ambulance.  Yes, the ambulance pulled out in front of him but far enough ahead that it would have been safe if he had not been going at an insane speed.  It was not an emergency ambulance but, even if it was, they could have done nothing.  Despite this, the second brother did not stop driving his bike at similar insane speeds.  I forget what he hit.