MODELS AND PHOTOGRAPHERS PLEASE READ!!! The dangers of some of the most beautiful locations..

NSFW

Timely advice, as I've been thinking about waterfall shots recently. 

A friend of mine told me that not that long ago there was news in the media of a guard going underground to his instant death due to poisonous gases which cannot be smelt ( or of course seen ) "Think canary in a coalmine" The guard's colleague then descended to see if he was ok and also perished. Two life's lost just like that, when it comes to "shoots" is it worth that kind of risk for some photographs ?

Think very seriously before going underground anywhere without a meter ( they can be hired ) Also, there is of course the risk of roof collapse if for example you were down a mine, or in an underground tunnel. The fact they are abandoned/disused can but only make them potentially far more dangerous.

Erika Sykes Photography said

Timely advice, as I've been thinking about waterfall shots recently. 

Taylor S. Ericsson said

This should be kept at the top, especially now the warmer weather/longer days are appearing.

Last thing we want to hear about is anyone being injured or much worse.

Thank You Marmalade :-)

 

:) They're awesome....

Now posted as an article here http://purpleport.com/articles/119/the-dangers-of-beautiful-watery-locations-and-a-few-things-to-make-them-easier with a link back to the forum thread to pick up anything added..:)

Derelict buildings to follow..:)

The currents around waterfalls can be deadly The waterfall in many of my shots is stunningly beautiful but also lethal. I use it not only as a workshop location but also as an example in my safety lectures of why it is so important to think safety first around waterfalls. Any body of water can be lethal if not respected. 

Edited by PhotoClassic

Great advice from Marmalade indeed. I'm keenly aware not just of the risks but also the discomfort endured by the poor model.

I'm reminded of the old quote about the Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers collaboration:

"Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, except backwards and in high heels."

Great thread and lots to think about.  I like the sound of the boots.

PeterH said

And remember photographers, if this is your idea, you're liable should anything go wrong. You can't contract out of personal injury claims.

This is more of a personal criticism than a legal opinion so take that for what it's worth, but surley the model or subject, certainly in model photography I would assume would be themselves liable for their own mistakes, and should exercise their own judgment. 

I've been planning shoots at heights for awhile now, and if something should happen to a model due to me or my team making a mistake with the rigging or not getting authorization to use the location, etc; then I would expect the blame and any repercussions to fall at my doorstep... but, if the model simply slipped of his or own doing, their own lack of preparation or worse still decided to hang about without or refusing safety equipment/advice, any fault on their part should be their own responsibility. 

Back to subject, before asking a model to pose in freezing water on such locations, I'd expect to have safety plans and equipment in place, but if they deem happy to do the work, considering what has been identified them, i.e a risk assessment,surely if anything goes wrong; they can't suddenly then blame the photographer, after any reasonable risks have been outlined to them and they consented to the shoot.  On a less severe note, how would people feel if a model claimed loss of earnings due to getting a cold, or worse hypothermia due to doing a shoot in cold water... where does personally responsibility end and employer / colleague culpability begin? 

Erika Sykes Photography said

PeterH said

And remember photographers, if this is your idea, you're liable should anything go wrong. You can't contract out of personal injury claims.

This is more of a personal criticism than a legal opinion so take that for what it's worth, but surley the model or subject, certainly in model photography I would assume would be themselves liable for their own mistakes, and should exercise their own judgment. 

I've been planning shoots at heights for awhile now, and if something should happen to a model due to me or my team making a mistake with the rigging or not getting authorization to use the location, etc; then I would expect the blame and any repercussions to fall at my doorstep... but, if the model simply slipped of his or own doing, their own lack of preparation or worse still decided to hang about without or refusing safety equipment/advice, any fault on their part should be their own responsibility. 

Back to subject, before asking a model to pose in freezing water on such locations, I'd expect to have safety plans and equipment in place, but if they deem happy to do the work, considering what has been identified them, i.e a risk assessment,surely if anything goes wrong; they can't suddenly then blame the photographer, after any reasonable risks have been outlined to them and they consented to the shoot.  On a less severe note, how would people feel if a model claimed loss of earnings due to getting a cold, or worse hypothermia due to doing a shoot in cold water... where does personally responsibility end and employer / colleague culpability begin? 

Do you employ or contract services?

PhotoClassic said

The currents around waterfalls can be deadly The waterfall in many of my shots is stunningly beautiful but also lethal. I use it not only as a workshop location but also as an example in my safety lectures of why it is so important to think safety first around waterfalls. Any body of water can be lethal if not respected. 

Edited by PhotoClassic

Watch this space.....:)

And you can only feel currents...rarely see them. If it starts to pull and you have any doubt, STOP and go back..:) There's always another shot somewhere safer..

I used to do white water canoeing as a youngster. I very nearly got trapped under a stopper (base of waterfall, drop in level, like a weir), as the water pressure can be so high you get pinned to the riverbed. Fortunately I was able to pull myself along till I was spat out about 50m downstream, minus paddles and footwear. The fall was no more than 18inches but the river was in full flow (wet Spring). Much more and I might not have got out. A bit upstream where there was a mini falls (15ft drop) there was a toggle sticking out at the bottom, attached to a 13 foot canoe. Water pressure kept it there.

So yeah. Good advice, and timely too. :)

brewster said

Great advice from Marmalade indeed. I'm keenly aware not just of the risks but also the discomfort endured by the poor model.

I'm reminded of the old quote about the Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers collaboration:

"Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, except backwards and in high heels."

Love this! Another good tip is for photographers to actually shoot shots in a t shirt if they can, and wrap up between when the model does... Then you know almost first hand how warm or cold it is.. Not always viable I know, but does help:) Failing that stand in a t shirt when you get to your location and see how long it takes for you to get cold.. Then you have a guide time for shooting!! Sometimes it may only be five frames if you're lucky :)

Donald said

Great thread and lots to think about.  I like the sound of the boots.

 

I'll bring them with me.....:)

Erika Sykes Photography said

PeterH said

And remember photographers, if this is your idea, you're liable should anything go wrong. You can't contract out of personal injury claims.

This is more of a personal criticism than a legal opinion so take that for what it's worth, but surley the model or subject, certainly in model photography I would assume would be themselves liable for their own mistakes, and should exercise their own judgment. 

I've been planning shoots at heights for awhile now, and if something should happen to a model due to me or my team making a mistake with the rigging or not getting authorization to use the location, etc; then I would expect the blame and any repercussions to fall at my doorstep... but, if the model simply slipped of his or own doing, their own lack of preparation or worse still decided to hang about without or refusing safety equipment/advice, any fault on their part should be their own responsibility. 

Back to subject, before asking a model to pose in freezing water on such locations, I'd expect to have safety plans and equipment in place, but if they deem happy to do the work, considering what has been identified them, i.e a risk assessment,surely if anything goes wrong; they can't suddenly then blame the photographer, after any reasonable risks have been outlined to them and they consented to the shoot.  On a less severe note, how would people feel if a model claimed loss of earnings due to getting a cold, or worse hypothermia due to doing a shoot in cold water... where does personally responsibility end and employer / colleague culpability begin? 

I wouldn't like to comment on the legals... Much of what I do would be technically un insurable and I always accept risk with any shoot of this nature, but proper advice needs to be sought :) And if really unsure, DON'T shoot it.. If it rings big alarm bells don't shoot it... And there is ALWAYS time to do a basic risk assessment, even in your head before you do anything like this.. There is a reason they do them in businesses etc :)

Unfortunately, the term Health & Safety has been misused so often over the years that people still believe it doesn't apply to them. 

How many people have gone on a shoot and discussed beforehand and during ...what to do in the event of an emergency situation? Not many i can guarantee !! 

Having models give examples of precarious activities works well to highlight potential issues...and more importantly gets people discussing safety :) well done Marmalade

Francisco Scaramanga said

Erika Sykes Photography said

PeterH said

And remember photographers, if this is your idea, you're liable should anything go wrong. You can't contract out of personal injury claims.

This is more of a personal criticism than a legal opinion so take that for what it's worth, but surley the model or subject, certainly in model photography I would assume would be themselves liable for their own mistakes, and should exercise their own judgment. 

I've been planning shoots at heights for awhile now, and if something should happen to a model due to me or my team making a mistake with the rigging or not getting authorization to use the location, etc; then I would expect the blame and any repercussions to fall at my doorstep... but, if the model simply slipped of his or own doing, their own lack of preparation or worse still decided to hang about without or refusing safety equipment/advice, any fault on their part should be their own responsibility. 

Back to subject, before asking a model to pose in freezing water on such locations, I'd expect to have safety plans and equipment in place, but if they deem happy to do the work, considering what has been identified them, i.e a risk assessment,surely if anything goes wrong; they can't suddenly then blame the photographer, after any reasonable risks have been outlined to them and they consented to the shoot.  On a less severe note, how would people feel if a model claimed loss of earnings due to getting a cold, or worse hypothermia due to doing a shoot in cold water... where does personally responsibility end and employer / colleague culpability begin? 

Do you employ or contract services?

In the context of model photography; hire models and pay assistants/MUA'etc; though also collaborate within TF projects, which I would assume events out any culpability yet further... curious for input. 

Morph01 said

I used to do white water canoeing as a youngster. I very nearly got trapped under a stopper (base of waterfall, drop in level, like a weir), as the water pressure can be so high you get pinned to the riverbed. Fortunately I was able to pull myself along till I was spat out about 50m downstream, minus paddles and footwear. The fall was no more than 18inches but the river was in full flow (wet Spring). Much more and I might not have got out. A bit upstream where there was a mini falls (15ft drop) there was a toggle sticking out at the bottom, attached to a 13 foot canoe. Water pressure kept it there.

So yeah. Good advice, and timely too. :)

Yep! Almost been under a boat in a kyak on the Thames trying to get round the edge of a weir in Summer here... I don't do it any more :(

KevJames said

Unfortunately, the term Health & Safety has been misused so often over the years that people still believe it doesn't apply to them. 

How many people have gone on a shoot and discussed beforehand and during ...what to do in the event of an emergency situation? Not many i can guarantee !! 

Having models give examples of precarious activities works well to highlight potential issues...and more importantly gets people discussing safety :) well done Marmalade

It's the words everybody dreads, and whilst Health and Safety would probably never allow most of these shoots, we'll all do them... But it is everybodies responsibility to consider everything to minimise the risks if they decide to do it...