For as long as can remember - going back before PP, there were always people saying it was all going to hell in a handcart. 

Personally, there are more models worth photographing than time to shoot them. No problem getting them to take on shoots - set up by mail or my responding to their castings. I'm not reliable enough about delivering for TFP (still editing June's work), so I pay; maybe that helps. So have to agree with the OP and the first few responses: nothing like as bad as some posts would say.  

Miss_C

For me,you are an example par excellence of what the best models on PP represent.

Am I living in a parallel universe?

gjp - I realise that you're across the frontier in the Wilds of Wiltshire, but it's not that bad there, is it? :)

When I read something regularly from specific posters that doesn't fit in with my view of how things are on here, saying it over and over again or hijacking other threads to say it again will just discount anything they say. I know the site likes to leave people free to say more or less what they like, but some of it is harming the business model and some of it is a bit like a record stuck in a groove. Maybe AI could help LoL track the culprits, record the evidence and administer the clean up! That'll give them something else to moan about.

I am very happy with what I am achieving. I would love to find a couple more models but I am well aware I have a niche and am looking for people who I think can fulfil that. It's not the existing models problem to sort that, most who are suitable live too far away to be practical and cost effective. Moaning is driving people away not encouraging them to sign up and stay.

There is a wealth of suitable people who exist but are not available to shoot now on here. I know it is alien for the site to consider moderating the environment on here, but that is the only way to make it more appealing to the best models. If you do that, then everyone else will follow. When I say environment, I mean everything, not just the forums which are more a pimple on the backside

Afrofilmviewer said

gjp

I guess there's doom and gloom because not everyone can afford £350+ a shoot? Or go on model experience holidays?

Because those who have it good and usually off shooting?

Maybe some folk don't have the resources to aid with things such as editing?

From a personal standpoint I think my shoots have been great. I love where my work is and where it may go.

But I definitely have empathy with those having a tough time. My recent casting got little takers and recent communication with models on here has been shocking. I find the positive count balance sometimes...jarring.

"It's not happening to me so I don't see the fuss!"

I think sometimes it all depends. On here I've always felt I'm fighting against folk in a privileged position. That said I also feel I make it work.

I agree that not everyone can afford some model rates or the experience holidays - I am one of those people 

 The way I approach model photography has changed over the years, as I cannot afford to pay for the number of shoots I used to do.  I now have to save money up and make the most of 2 or 3 bigger shoots a year, occasionally managing a small local shoot.

That said, I am enjoying this new way of working and, like you, I feel I am making it work for me. 

I think some other people need to compromise and find new ways of working that fit into the new reality (which might not be perfect, but allows them to still enjoy their hobby) - which it feels like we have done.

Also I think each side finds the other sides statements jarring, as they don’t recognise what is being said

Miss_C said

Just wanted to pop my head above the parrot pit and say thank you for mentioning my name alongside such a beautiful and talented group of women !! 🙏

I thoroughly enjoyed working with you Graham and I hope to again one day!!!

I agree that I don't think it's all bad....! There's a lot of wondeful, professional, quality models out there and I think it's only a minority that give the others a bad name. And, as someone else mentioned, the negative experiences always get the most press so to speak!!

Having run Basford for almost 2 years now I have very rarely been really 'let down', and rarely have I had photographers turn up and models not. It does occasionally happen but when I think of the number of people I have met over the last couple of years... its such a small percentage it's hardly worth discussing!! ☺️

You are very welcome and fit into that category :)

I also really enjoyed shooting with you 

Orson Carter said

Am I living in a parallel universe?

gjp - I realise that you're across the frontier in the Wilds of Wiltshire, but it's not that bad there, is it? :)

Occasionally it is :)

gjp "Also I think each side finds the other sides statements jarring, as they don’t recognise what is being said"

Well it's like the FPI chat and similar. A person will mention frustration from not receiving any, only to be told by folk with tons not to worry because they themselves don't.

I get it. And I see why it can be an annoyance. I've had to place any of more elaborate ideas to the wayside after being let down by the things you mentioned earlier. Flakiness, bad comms, etc.

Anything more basic/minimal? It happens and the shoots are cool.

It's not as all or nothing as it can come across here. But I remember dropping alot of money (to me) on studio hire a couple of times only for people not to turn up. And to pretend it doesn't happen to people...I don't feel is a great thing.

According to the Many Worlds view of cosmology, consciousness, etc, one of many many.

The particular Narrative I've followed through the points in the Multiverse has gone as the OP describes, all good.

My experience is the same as the OP’s, so I’ve also been reading other threads and struggling to recognise the problems frequently referred to.

Yes, there are occasional problems of poor communications, late cancellations and ghosting, but my experience is that those problems are lower in this industry than in others. For example, I’ve had many more problems with builders and plumbers than with models.

I know that everyone has different financial pressures and that these can wax and wane as one goes through life. However, the UK has a GDP at PPP of around £50k - we enjoy being one of the wealthiest nations on earth. So it would not make economic sense if the average photographer were unable to hire the average model at £50-£100 an hour. Particularly as the average photographer can obviously afford an expensive camera, photography accessories, a smartphone and a computer. That’s not to say that there can’t be exceptions, but I’m talking about averages here.

A lot of the negativity on other threads seems to boil down to photographers not being willing to pay relatively modest hourly rates or not being willing to cover disbursements. Another common theme is complaining that models won’t work pro bono (also known as “TF”).

Chris Green

Perhaps people shouldn't merely reduce things to just the wage of the model?

Easy to boil everything to averages and just remove circumstance and reality of others?

England is considered a rich country so therefore this is just "affordable".

My last two shoots cost more than the camera I used. 🤣

In fact most of what I use is discontinued and has been for years. But I am the average photographer....🤷🏾‍♂️

I think some issues stem from the image that a set of people are loaded and another set are just lowly and modest.

I think it's easy to be negative when people look at something and basically say..."well not happening to me." Then dismissing and trivialising any or all issues they may have.

That said. Forums thrive on black and white thinking.

Chris Green said

I know that everyone has different financial pressures and that these can wax and wane as one goes through life. However, the UK has a GDP at PPP of around £50k - we enjoy being one of the wealthiest nations on earth. So it would not make economic sense if the average photographer were unable to hire the average model at £50-£100 an hour. Particularly as the average photographer can obviously afford an expensive camera, photography accessories, a smartphone and a computer. That’s not to say that there can’t be exceptions, but I’m talking about averages here.

That's just a baseless assumption, bordering on utter rubbish. I don't think you have a clue about the internet model photographer demographic in the UK and are assuming it's the same demographic as you.

I've resisted, until now, the urge to take the bait from this thread.

But because I'm stepping back in the New Year I feel I've not much left to lose.

Here's how I see it.

There are two different PPs.

The most active on here can afford to spend eye-watering amounts of cash on the top names and virtually guarantee themselves an FPI in the process. Do those models deliver? Yes. Are their Comms timely and professional? Hell yes. Do they get on with the job when on the shoot? In terms of the names bandied around that I've shot with, absolutely 100% no notes from my end.

But not everyone has the budget to do that regularly. And since 2022/3 the majority of us have just been priced out of that market.

The rest of us just want to shoot what we like. For me that is a style that, yes I admit, is rapidly going out of fashion. But the models who want to shoot that style now want to self shoot for OF.

I'm not interested in either fashion or Naked Chicks On Rocks.

So we are where we are.