Submit for FPI, Photographer Skill or Model Looks?

tandi said

Does anyone know if the number of FPI you can suggested is restricted. I have suggested a couple of the latest uploads in my locality and this one won't go to the suggested page?

Maximum of five per day, I believe.

oh good to know thank you, I thought it was a little odd.

ANDY00 said

Stanmore While I agree with almost everything you’ve said here, I do have a few points to raise.

On point 4: While this is true in essence, technically digital photography belongs to the same family as CGI. The only difference is that the image is created by what the digital sensor captures, rather than by someone’s artistic creation. However, using various tools, a photographer can incorporate those creative factors as well.

As for the statement that “PP is a photography site and the idea that retouching is bad”:

I believe PP is more accurately described as a networking or social site for artists. It caters to multiple types of artists, not just photographers, which is often overlooked. These include photographers, models, designers, hair stylists, traditional artists (such as sketchers and painters), retouchers, digital artists, studios, videographers and many more, we’ve even had modellers on here in the past.

The idea that PP is solely a photography site in 2024 isn’t an accurate description. If anything, it’s more of a modeling site, as models are the one resource needed by almost all artist types.

And a lot of FPIs—current, future, and past—are heavily retouched using software like Photoshop and Lightroom. Just as in media and advertising, many images are extensively edited. With the emergence of AI technology, this trend is unlikely to disappear; in fact, it’s likely to increase and become further integrated into the tools used by creatives across the site.

Photographers using smartphones can already employ AI software to remove unwanted elements from an image before even capturing it. Drones are being used to take photos from previously impossible angles, and advanced lighting technology enables shooting in conditions that would have been unthinkable a decade ago.

Photography and art never stop evolving, constantly merging with advancements in technology.

Originality lies in using new technology in innovative and insightful ways to create something that inspires. At its core, this is part of what makes a good FPI and FPI thumbnail.

It’s about innovation, art, inspiration, beauty, shock value, creativity, and even advertising. In short, if you want a thumbnail of an FPI to inspire people, it should embody those qualities. It should encourage people to get creative and believe that this is an inspirational space designed for that purpose.

Anyway, I honestly don’t mean this in an argumentative way—these are merely my opinions and perceptions of how things are.

Art is about creativity, using anything at your disposal. MUAs have received FPIs for their incredible creativity in makeup (I’m one of them), and retouchers have earned FPIs for their digital creations (I’m one of them too).

For me, the key words are creativity, inspiration, and originality—just my humble opinion.

I do not disagree with you on these points...

My PP portfolio 'banner' image is a composite of over 40 separate frames, has some fictitious shadows, and 'heavy' tonality treatment. Several other images in my port' are similarly 'constructed' digitally.

I regularly vote on images by stylists, MUA's; the occasional illustrator, retoucher and studio too.

What I was trying to explain is a common occurrence where I would be adding an image to the queue, or voting to 'keep' one in the queue, if it wasn't for some shoddy manipulation which frankly was unnecessary. In other words, what would/should have been an FPI is so often 'killed' by clumsy post-prod' work... If you're going to go to town on post-prod' that's fine, but it needs to be done to a high standard *for FPI's* IMHO.

Same can be said of course for composition, lighting, colour palette, timing, and all the other elements that combine to create a strong image, but the most common offender when it comes to FPI 'killer' that I encounter is heavy-handed / ill-considered post-prod'.

Finally (and obviously) every elf has their own standards and preferences. The process is a  general consensus/democracy. I'm just offering my own perspectives on the matter.

Edited by Stanmore

Stanmore said

ANDY00 said

Stanmore While I agree with almost everything you’ve said here, I do have a few points to raise.

On point 4: While this is true in essence, technically digital photography belongs to the same family as CGI. The only difference is that the image is created by what the digital sensor captures, rather than by someone’s artistic creation. However, using various tools, a photographer can incorporate those creative factors as well.

As for the statement that “PP is a photography site and the idea that retouching is bad”:

I believe PP is more accurately described as a networking or social site for artists. It caters to multiple types of artists, not just photographers, which is often overlooked. These include photographers, models, designers, hair stylists, traditional artists (such as sketchers and painters), retouchers, digital artists, studios, videographers and many more, we’ve even had modellers on here in the past.

The idea that PP is solely a photography site in 2024 isn’t an accurate description. If anything, it’s more of a modeling site, as models are the one resource needed by almost all artist types.

And a lot of FPIs—current, future, and past—are heavily retouched using software like Photoshop and Lightroom. Just as in media and advertising, many images are extensively edited. With the emergence of AI technology, this trend is unlikely to disappear; in fact, it’s likely to increase and become further integrated into the tools used by creatives across the site.

Photographers using smartphones can already employ AI software to remove unwanted elements from an image before even capturing it. Drones are being used to take photos from previously impossible angles, and advanced lighting technology enables shooting in conditions that would have been unthinkable a decade ago.

Photography and art never stop evolving, constantly merging with advancements in technology.

Originality lies in using new technology in innovative and insightful ways to create something that inspires. At its core, this is part of what makes a good FPI and FPI thumbnail.

It’s about innovation, art, inspiration, beauty, shock value, creativity, and even advertising. In short, if you want a thumbnail of an FPI to inspire people, it should embody those qualities. It should encourage people to get creative and believe that this is an inspirational space designed for that purpose.

Anyway, I honestly don’t mean this in an argumentative way—these are merely my opinions and perceptions of how things are.

Art is about creativity, using anything at your disposal. MUAs have received FPIs for their incredible creativity in makeup (I’m one of them), and retouchers have earned FPIs for their digital creations (I’m one of them too).

For me, the key words are creativity, inspiration, and originality—just my humble opinion.

I do not disagree with you on these points...

My PP portfolio 'banner' image is a composite of over 40 separate frames, has some fictitious shadows, and 'heavy' tonality treatment. Several other images in my port' are similarly 'constructed' digitally.

I regularly vote on images by stylists, MUA's; the occasional illustrator, retoucher and studio too.

What I was trying to explain is a common occurrence where I would be adding an image to the queue, or voting to 'keep' one in the queue, if it wasn't for some shoddy manipulation which frankly was unnecessary. In other words, what would/should have been an FPI is so often 'killed' by clumsy post-prod' work... If you're going to go to town on post-prod' that's fine, but it needs to be done to a high standard *for FPI's* IMHO.

Same can be said of course for composition, lighting, colour palette, timing, and all the other elements that combine to create a strong image, but the most common offender when it comes to FPI 'killer' that I encounter is heavy-handed / ill-considered post-prod'.

Finally (and obviously) every elf has their own standards and preferences. The process is a  general consensus/democracy. I'm just offering my own perspectives on the matter.

Edited by Stanmore

Yeah, I agree with this :-) and fully understand your point now. Thanks!

Stanmore said

As CalmNudes suggests, regular site members can vote images onto the “Suggested” list, which elves look at to find images for the FPI queue.

Elves vote images straight to the FPI queue, from any page they’re viewing including the Suggested list pages.

AIUI images must linger in the queue for at least 7 days. In this time elves vote to either keep or remove each image. If any image receives 75% or more remove votes and 40 votes have been cast, it is removed from the queue.

I would guess that more than half the images added to the queue are removed this way.

Images not removed await their turn to hit the front page. I believe there is an algorithm in place to delay images by those members who’ve had recent FPI’s awarded.

Edited by Stanmore

The pedant in me wants to quibble with "vote". There's the pile of "suggested for the elves to look at"  anyone can toss a picture on the pile. 

There's the queue of things which are front-page-bound, any elf can put things into the queue, and there is a vote for / against system which allows things to be voted off. I suspect there is a veto option somewhere (because I would have written one if I were coding PP).  How many drop out on average, Russ might have that data but it's not accessible - at least to non-elves. 

It was widely believed there was a 1 week delay between awards, but I think Russ said it hasn't been that way for years, and there are 15 people who have had more than 50 directly awarded to them (not on other people's ports) this year - or as I actually calculated 50 from the last 9000 FPIs on the site.  (And per the other thread where I talked about scraping the data, I'm not going out those people but every single one of them has had two FPIs within 48 hours - the limit seems to be 24 hours).  13 accounts cover 10% of all FPIs awarded. So if today as an average day 4 or 5 will be on the 44 shown on the FPI widget right now.  (That might sound like a gripe. One of the highest awarded is someone I've suggested multiple times, he posts multiple pictures most days and typically at least one is worth the elves' time. If people have more awards than I have uploads, that's my fault for not giving myself more chances, not the system's fault). 

Orson Carter said

If a picture grabs my attention and if I think it would be a good advert for the site, I suggest it.  

'Fraid I'm one of those 'I know what I like, like' people, so I've never tried to analyse why a picture grabs my attention. If it does, it just does. 

Sorry - I'm not much help, am I?  

I'm with Orson on this, I know what I like even if I can't explain it to other people.