We should be helping each other, not hurting each other

You could try an start a group dedicated to fashion shoots.  Groups are notoriously hard to get off the ground, (which is a shame actually because if I thought I get a group of like minded creatives started I would) however if you could get the right people involved from the start and push it hard in the forums and invite the right models and photographers you never know.

Given you are in London I would  look outside PP and consider one of the London photography groups (not on here) a quick google and you will find them, I think you are far more likely to find the type of creative that you are looking for and don't seem to be finding here.

MaristarOxley said

ANDY00 The fear and despondency is real tho 🙂‍↕️

Oh, I know. To be honest, some time ago I nearly quit the site because of some of the interactions I had on the forum. But I stuck around and eventually found like-minded people worth talking to—you will too. I just hope many more do what you did and be brave. The conversation would be so much better with more voices in it.

Allesandro B I do shoot but from Instagram. PP is for me, either good, or absolutely zero. I am posting this forum for the sake of the community rather than for me getting shoots. The community here can be so toxic and attracts a small group who are intent on scaring off models in particular, who may be new to the site.

MaristarOxley said

Allesandro B I do shoot but from Instagram. PP is for me, either good, or absolutely zero. I am posting this forum for the sake of the community rather than for me getting shoots. The community here can be so toxic and attracts a small group who are intent on scaring off models in particular, who may be new to the site.

I understand what you are saying.  It's interesting because as a rule I find on the photographers group here, although not massively active, the vast majority of people are extremely positive and helpful when I post a question or ask for advice. 

The "community" here is pretty loose I think, a lot of the people on it (silent majority) are just looking to arrange shoots or just looking! and don't bother with the forums, a lot models I've shot with don't bother with them/have never been on them, not because they perceive them as toxic just because actually they are not interested.  Which is why I suggested one of the London groups because there are communities (Facebook or Meetup) that do have active online communities.

MaristarOxley said

ANDY00 I definitely agree with you. The only way for it to change is for the silent majority to start speaking up. The ones who show up just to shut things down do make me wonder what the payoff is for them.

I mean, I've already been told here, that models should not get involved in forums...🤷🏽‍♂️

Edited by MaristarOxley

Lol, if that is directed at me, they you have misunderstood what I wrote

"I personally wouldn't encourage any model to get involved in the forums"

I am not going to encourage anyone to get involved anymore than I would tell them they shouldn't get involved, which I have not

MaristarOxley said

FunPhotographer

Admin probably have so much to deal with on here, with all the accounts I see being taken off, spam accounts, vitriol on forums...But there's a case indeed for them to intervene earlier and to call out the major culprits. Maybe a time-out period for those who consistently feel the need to be bullies on conversations that are trying to be positive.

I cannot praise Admin. too highly. They are quick to, very politely, close down a thread that is becoming too personal. I feel that the site works just fine as it is, given that you can't please all the people all the time.

Gerry99111 we should be encouraged though, because it's a space for all and not the few.

priceb61 of course you can't please everybody all the time, but it's a place for all and not the few.

I would encourage everyone to get involved in the conversation. More voices make for a much broader discussion with many points of view. I’d encourage anyone to talk about whatever subject they want to, even those that 'have been posted so many times,' because if someone wants to talk about it, there’s obviously more to discuss or understand. You have a fundamental freedom of speech, and for those topics or conversations that don’t interest you, there’s always the scroll button.

ANDY00 said

MaristarOxley said

ANDY00 I definitely agree with you. The only way for it to change is for the silent majority to start speaking up. The ones who show up just to shut things down do make me wonder what the payoff is for them.

It seems simple—participation in the forum brings attention to your portfolio. If you’re the only one talking, who do you think people will be looking at? But when they reduce the forum to a community of one, what are they going to talk about then? :-)

Everyone should get involved in discussions that interest them without fear—that’s the cure for trolls, and that’s how we inspire more creativity in the community. That’s what a community is all about.

You like fashion shoots? What kind of fashion shoots inspire you?

Edited by ANDY00

Most models use the forums as a way to populate their "Who I Don't Want To Work With" lists. They also won't participate because there is a belief that photographers do exactly the same.

I would guess that it's easier to agree to a shoot knowing only what references say about someone, rather than knowing full well that they're a bigoted narcissistic misogynist.

ANDY00 👍🏽👍🏽

MaristarOxley said

Gerry99111 we should be encouraged though, because it's a space for all and not the few.

I hear what you say, to an extent, but I do remember 15 years ago one of the most well known studio owners telling me that all forums were just noise and best avoided. I am getting close to extracting myself fully, so I can hardly recommend others join in something I feel needs a complete re-design or better still, something more akin to the IG way of doing things, where forums just don't exist in our format

I have watched many of the most established photographers and models who will literally have nothing to do with the forums or may once in a blue moon post in something like share a shoot. Some will never post. Some did once and then realised that was a mistake.

We actually have some world class photographers on here, but they keep themselves to themselves apart from image uploads. All levels from fashion to nude specialists. It is the same on all modelling platforms and in my opinion IG provides much more traction and a wise investment of their time and energy. Find a vehicle they would be willing to become involved in and the others will follow

Edited by Gerry99111

Edited by Gerry99111

The Ghost said

ANDY00 said

MaristarOxley said

ANDY00 I definitely agree with you. The only way for it to change is for the silent majority to start speaking up. The ones who show up just to shut things down do make me wonder what the payoff is for them.

It seems simple—participation in the forum brings attention to your portfolio. If you’re the only one talking, who do you think people will be looking at? But when they reduce the forum to a community of one, what are they going to talk about then? :-)

Everyone should get involved in discussions that interest them without fear—that’s the cure for trolls, and that’s how we inspire more creativity in the community. That’s what a community is all about.

You like fashion shoots? What kind of fashion shoots inspire you?

Edited by ANDY00

Most models use the forums as a way to populate their "Who I Don't Want To Work With" lists. They also won't participate because there is a belief that photographers do exactly the same.

I would guess that it's easier to agree to a shoot knowing only what references say about someone, rather than knowing full well that they're a bigoted narcissistic misogynist.

I would absolutely love to hear a model’s perspective on this point… "using the forum to populate their 'Who I Don’t Want to Work With' lists?" What would be the point of that? I’m really curious—any models care to explain?

That doesn’t seem like a real thing. I mean, why would someone choose not to work with someone just for posting on a forum, but prefer people who talk silently in shadows where only a few hear? Hmm…

I guess I’m considered a prolific forum user for conversation, but does that change the quality of work I produce? Or how much I pay? Or how professional I am on shoots? I’m really curious about the ethical thought behind this.

Edited by ANDY00

"using the forum to populate their 'Who I Don’t Want to Work With' lists?" 

Very useful.

I have a very small number of models that I would avoid on a list of my own, even though some are excellent models.

I know a few models who will note misogynous or crude comments and have a list.

There are so many great people on here that there's no need to work with arseholes....

If we all did a bit of careful policing of discussions we start when comments are not as they should be. I did that a couple of days ago. I asked people to stick to topic when hijacked. It seemed to work.