We should be helping each other, not hurting each other

 

priceb61 said, 1729838876

MaristarOxley said

parkway it sure would be nice for models on here and in general to have a voice that doesn't get a put down.

I'm not keen on a private group, as it creates a clique that defeats the purpose of me wanting collaborations and connections in the Groups.


Your point about cliques is a valid one but as long as you have a group like General Chat you are bound to have a wide variety of views, some of which you're going to dislike. I think it was Voltaire who said, "I disagree with what you say but I defend to the death your right to say it."

Afrofilmviewer said, 1729840484

MaristarOxley

"models are interested in groups, but are discouraged to do so."

- I will only speak from experience here but from the models I've engaged with...they don't appear to be. I see they engage more on Instagram however, where they have more control of the conversation.

"They also don't take part because many many models are here as their business, so are more interested in castings and earning money. Forums to them are irrelevant. I would disagree, but I'm an old lady, who earns income from my agency bookings."

- So why should I as a photographer try and change their mind? If that works for them then I'm not sure what's gained from photographers trying to encourage them to enter some of the circular conversations that occur here.

"Groups do expose things about models and photographers that are not known otherwise. I have found that it really helps to know the person you are going to work with. It's more important here, because there is no mediator. My agency does all the hard work for me when I am booked for a job. If anything goes wrong, I report it to them and they do handle issues. On here we have to do it ourselves with no support for many things from PP, because they are not responsible for us on or after a shoot."

- For me that's where the prep comes in. Models have found that our conversations before a shoot have highlighted what it will be like to work with me. Personally In the 8 (wow) years I've been here, I've seen (and been told) the following statements

models are too busy to:

- Look at photographers ports

- Read photographers notes

- Vet photographers for safety

- take part in groups

- Write References

- Write messages/prep

- Read castings

This has come from both models and photographers. And if that's the case, then what else can one do to "get them to know the person they're working with"?

"The connections should go both ways."

- It should. However for a section of people it doesn't. And that often depends on how an individual operates.

"Many models on this platform are not interested in being nice, as they want to earn money and not friendships. They get bookings because they fir the bill for the photographers. I mainly do tfp collaborations, so I am more likely to want to know who I'll connect with."

- If models on the platform are not interested in being nice doesn't that make forum encouragement pointless?

Sorry. Bit long for a Friday morning.

parkway said, 1729841648

I'm pretty sure there are models out there that want to collaborate but probably they don't want to participate in any group posts as they get hounded by billions of photographers or they're new to the site and don't want to put themselves out there because maybe they have low confidence or like to do things without too much fanfare and razzmatazz

Edited by parkway

Sensual Art said, 1729841996

MaristarOxley said

I'm not keen on a private group, as it creates a clique that defeats the purpose of me wanting collaborations and connections in the Groups.

It doesn't have to be private, but a special interest (member-created) group can be public, open to all joiners, and with a sensible, enticing title and description will be found by anyone wishing to share views and experiences.

Afrofilmviewer said, 1729842335

MaristarOxley

"it sure would be nice for models on here and in general to have a voice that doesn't get a put down."

"Many models on this platform are not interested in being nice, as they want to earn money and not friendships."

Models shouldn't get needless put downs but look at these two comments together.

They're not here to be nice, but also don't put them down photographers.

I'm unsure where this is going.

JME Studios said, 1729844726

Lot to unpack here.

To go back to the original point, I can see why the forums are a bit intimidating. Forums in general are also an old skool way of having discussions now, social media has taken over the role to a large degree.

Doesn't surprise me that Model Chat is completely dead.

As stated, nude is where the centre of gravity is. Whilst there are some good fashion and lingerie models on here, broadly speaking a model who is willing to pose topless or nude will get more work than one who is not. That's the reality.

Of course there's nothing stopping this place becoming more buoyant, but it needs enough models in particular to put their head above the parapet.

Russ Freeman (staff) said, 1729845456

Just throwing some data out there...

The private Model Chat group has 29,023 members and 2,502 posts with 15,617 replies.

The private Photographer Chat group has 41,682 members and 14,338 posts with 234,931 replies.


Michael_990 said, 1729846646 ... Comment buried because it was unsolicited critique

ANDY00 said, 1729846810 ... Comment buried because it quoted a buried reply

Margo Jost said, 1729846893

Afrofilmviewer there's only a small amount of models that use the forums so who on earth does that as I haven't seen any bigoted behaviour from models on here.

Photographers perhaps I have.

I also haven't seen any trashing of hobbyist photographers beyond some occasionally being called GWCS which we are all guilty of doing including photographers.

It's exactly these sort of comments that are what causes models to be unwilling to join in the scrum.

I mean who honestly would want to? 😬

Edited by Margo Jost

Michael_990 said, 1729847080 ... Comment buried because it quoted a buried reply

Allesandro B said, 1729847293

Russ Freeman said

Just throwing some data out there...

The private Model Chat group has 29,023 members and 2,502 posts with 15,617 replies.

The private Photographer Chat group has 41,682 members and 14,338 posts with 234,931 replies.


My observation is that the Photographer Chat group can be useful, informative (and therefore dull to some) and is pretty well behaved.  

MaristarOxley said, 1729849760

priceb61 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

MaristarOxley said, 1729850023

Afrofilmviewer I see what you mean.

Models are as varied as photographers. I do see that models on here can be cold and that's not nice for anyone. However we get so so so so many dm talking s"#t about wanting to create something amazing if we take our clothes off ( even me at 58 years old), so one's skin gets toughened.

MaristarOxley said, 1729850069

JME Studios 👍🏽