Models' fees

I don’t know why it’s so difficult, set and offer a budget you can afford. Either it’s accepted or it’s declined. No drama, chewing on the side of your desk, you’ve offered a payment if it’s unacceptable the model will decline, so move on.

JamesMt142 said

I do agree that it is not right for a model to be paid for a shoot, then monetise that content on OF. I am happy to shoot OF/AM content but money cannot change hands either way. Nor would I put that content up on here.

Once again, it is what people agree on.

I am entirely happy for a model to use any images  from a shoot that I say they can use.

If they get money from some images, best of luck to them. My only interest is taking photographs. I don't want a financial return of any sort.

Chris Green said

Relevant to this discussion, I’m currently in Singapore for a while. It’s a country that seems to have a similar cost of living and standard of living as London. Indeed, a quick Google indicates that both Singapore and London have very similar average salaries (about £40,000 a year).

While here, I’ve contacted two models about fashion shoots. One charges £75 a hour. The other charges £60 an hour for “normal” fashion and £120 an hour for beachwear (ie swimsuit or bikini).

On the same day as arranging shoots with these models, I saw a casting call for a shoot in the UK offering £20 an hour. (As an aside, it always seems weird that a potential client can try to set the fee rather than the service provider.)

Anyway, this seems to reinforce my view that the UK model photography market doesn’t seem to make economic sense. Rather like the housing market, I think.

personally I think the model market is a good example of a market for non essential services working perfectly. There isn't scope for the price rises that you desire for the UK market but feel free to compensate for the rest of us.

There's probably a few factors at work as to why you are being quoted more, possibly "tourist rates", a lower supply of models.  If you are passing through Dubai on your way back, why not try booking a Russian model and tell us how much she was charging and maybe that could be the new benchmark for the UK.

You are perfectly entitled to your view but from an economic perspective you are wrong. The housing market is another market altogether but it's not "broken" and whilst demand outstrips supply, prices have fallen, even in London, in response to the general economic downturn and uncertainty over interest rates, which is what you would expect.

Chris Green said

Anyway, this seems to reinforce my view that the UK model photography market doesn’t seem to make economic sense. Rather like the housing market, I think.

No, it makes perfect economic sense. This has been explained to you many times and at length. Your dead horse is looking rather raw.

FiL said

Chris Green said

Anyway, this seems to reinforce my view that the UK model photography market doesn’t seem to make economic sense. Rather like the housing market, I think.

No, it makes perfect economic sense. This has been explained to you many times and at length. Your dead horse is looking rather raw.

It makes sense if one has ever been outside the M25.

Never left London - maybe not.

FiL said

Chris Green said

Anyway, this seems to reinforce my view that the UK model photography market doesn’t seem to make economic sense. Rather like the housing market, I think.

No, it makes perfect economic sense. This has been explained to you many times and at length. Your dead horse is looking rather raw.

Careful now, that's getting awfully close to Thatcherite economics :-D

As with any subsector of the economy, if pay and conditions were improved, you'd get more people into the sector, which might then drive prices back down a bit. Somebody has to pay for all this though!

Allesandro B I didn’t mean that I desire increased prices in the UK - I was rather questioning why they’re not higher.

What I mean about a “broken” market from an economic point of view is that although it may be behaving in line with normal supply and demand (albeit in an imperfect way), it strongly favours some participants in that market at the expense of others. The parallel with the housing market is that it is very difficult for young professionals in their 20s to get enough of a deposit and mortgage together to buy a reasonable first home - or even to rent a bedsit in London. It was much easier a couple of decades ago.

I know it’s not relevant to this thread or to the point you were making but, personally, I would find it very difficult from an ethical and moral point of view to work with any Russians at the moment. Amongst other things, it would not be fair on the Ukrainian models I’ve worked with.

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The Ghost said

FiL said

Chris Green said

Anyway, this seems to reinforce my view that the UK model photography market doesn’t seem to make economic sense. Rather like the housing market, I think.

No, it makes perfect economic sense. This has been explained to you many times and at length. Your dead horse is looking rather raw.

Careful now, that's getting awfully close to Thatcherite economics :-D

As with any subsector of the economy, if pay and conditions were improved, you'd get more people into the sector, which might then drive prices back down a bit. Somebody has to pay for all this though!

That's also a bit free market / Thatcherite.  

If there's plenty of money chasing people willing to offer the service, prices go up, higher prices get more people into the market to offer the service, but also cause some buyers to drop out, prices drop a little, the market reaches an equilibrium with more being sold at a higher price.  
If there's a shortage of money and too many people offering the service, prices drop, lower prices cause people to drop out of the market prices, and tempt some buyers in, prices bounce back a bit, and the market reaches a different equilibrium with less being sold at a lower price. 

From what I remember doing A level economics, that was the first lesson. 

Edited by CalmNudes

I personally always think there is a problem with trying to compare one very small element of one country to another.

There are a whole range of variables to take into account.

The rates in this part of the modelling world are basically what the market can support.

Even at the rates you quote, photography is still one of the most expensive passtimes to have in this country.

I'm not trying to say that models aren't worth their fees. Quite on the contrary. But I for one would have to bow out if the rates were much higher than at present.

When price elasticity of demand meets price elasticity of supply, that where the magic happens 😀

A R G E N T U M said

When price elasticity of demand meets price elasticity of supply, that where the magic happens 😀

^ That's all very simple and straightforward, but this is more familiar to me...