Models' fees

I just think that the world is a better place if people are nicer to each other. That does not make me a White Knight Brigade Member

😃😃JUST BE NICE😃😃

Retouchguy

My old job in a restaurant I started in the end of 2022 at £9.50, I went onto 0 hour contract in july last year to do full time modelling as doing it part time was making me more money than my job. That same restaurant job now is on a minimum wage and pay £10.75 and is rising again in April!

I’ve always prices between £50-£100 ph and had an fully booked summer and winter , and never short of bookings.

Antonia Jay said

Retouchguy

My old job in a restaurant I started in the end of 2022 at £9.50, I went onto 0 hour contract in july last year to do full time modelling as doing it part time was making me more money than my job. That same restaurant job now is on a minimum wage and pay £10.75 and is rising again in April!

I’ve always prices between £50-£100 ph and had an fully booked summer and winter , and never short of bookings.

Modeling and a job in a restaurant are in absolutely no way anything alike and cannot be compared, if you want minimum guaranteed wage go back to working for the man, if you want to model you are self employed you set your rate, if people think you're worth it they will pay. 

Retouchguy said

TFP is an agreement to share time to create non commercial images for mutual portfolio creation , (...)

TFP is an agreement that (mostly) does not involve the flow of money in either direction.
There is no rule of law defining nobody can negotiate rights for all parties to sell licenses
as they see fit. Freedom of contract.

So if both photographer and model exploit the images, this can be legally absolutely fine.
Any arrangement that both parties agree to can be okay. Shared studio cost, shared travel
expenses, you name it - you can negotiate it.
Some models will work without financial compensation because they want imgaes by a
certain photographer, some will ask the photographer to create images to their liking as
compensation for pictures to his liking.

Bear with me for the masculinum genericum - of course this applies to female photographers
and male models the same. And to unicorns.

Michael_990 said

Retouchguy said

TFP is an agreement to share time to create non commercial images for mutual portfolio creation , (...)

TFP is an agreement that (mostly) does not involve the flow of money in either direction.
There is no rule of law defining nobody can negotiate rights for all parties to sell licenses
as they see fit. Freedom of contract.

So if both photographer and model exploit the images, this can be legally absolutely fine.
Any arrangement that both parties agree to can be okay. Shared studio cost, shared travel
expenses, you name it - you can negotiate it.
Some models will work without financial compensation because they want imgaes by a
certain photographer, some will ask the photographer to create images to their liking as
compensation for pictures to his liking.

Bear with me for the masculinum genericum - of course this applies to female photographers
and male models the same. And to unicorns.

i think everyone in the room understood all of that as a given and i didnt need to define the complete works of copyright law to explain it 

Retouchguy I didn’t say they are alike lol?

You mentioned how there havnt been pay rises and I was stating in my experience there has.

Why would I go back to working for the man when I do a lot better working as a model..

Antonia Jay said

Retouchguy I didn’t say they are alike lol?

You mentioned how there havnt been pay rises and I was stating in my experience there has.

Why would I go back to working for the man when I do a lot better working as a model..

oh i see, yes their has been (inflation) but with the pay rise tax goes up, rates goes up, fuel goes up, retail prices go up, so really your pay rise is worth nada :-D

Not saying how you should work, if your making good money as a model that's great, keep it up :-)

Edited by Retouchguy

Retouchguy said

i think everyone in the room understood all of that as a given and i didnt need to define the complete works of copyright law to explain it 

I think you missed the point he was making about commercial exploitation? TFP does not have to be non-commercial.

Gothic Image said

Retouchguy said

i think everyone in the room understood all of that as a given and i didnt need to define the complete works of copyright law to explain it 

I think you missed the point he was making about commercial exploitation? TFP does not have to be non-commercial.

yes i understood that's why i put on original post "Without copyright holders permission" or maybe you missed my point :-D

Retouchguy said

Gothic Image said

Retouchguy said

i think everyone in the room understood all of that as a given and i didnt need to define the complete works of copyright law to explain it 

I think you missed the point he was making about commercial exploitation? TFP does not have to be non-commercial.

yes i understood that's why i put on original post "Without copyright holders permission" or maybe you missed my point :-D

I did indeed!  :-)

Retouchguy said

i think everyone in the room understood all of that as a given and i didnt need to define the complete works of copyright law to explain it 

Nope. Sounded to me as an absolute claim. That's why I intervened.

CalmNudes said

Retouchguy said

CalmNudes said

 

 paying, shooting what you're told, putting additional time in to edit it, and then letting someone else sell it without sharing the proceeds isn't attractive to many people. 

Rubbish  search model casting in Scotland right now i guarantee you will find a few paid casting from models that tell you the theme they want, the style, the date etc and then you will see they all have OF or AM accounts where the images are for, the point of tf is to get mutual required images (Non commercial) technically models should legally pay for that 

For pity's sake. Just because a model puts out a casting asking for the moon on a stick doesn't mean anyone has to accept.  The castings exist. Do they get replies?  Are the replies worth having. 

^ Wot Mr.Calm Nudes said.

Anyone is free to ask for anything they want. If you don't like what's being asked for, don't do it.

Retouchguy said

TFP is an agreement to share time to create non commercial images for mutual portfolio creation , If a photographer pays a model then the model is not legally entitled to images and certainly is breaking the law using on OF or AM without permission from copyright holder (its copyright theft), Why are the model rights the only ones you're standing up for , photographer's have rights too 

If models want more money they should charge more its that simple, if they are worth it then they will get hired at that rate, all this debate about how much they're valued is pointless, people will only pay what they believe is fair at end of day, if a model over values themselves then they will get no work, if they undervalue themselves then they will lose money also. and since the cost of a shoot wildly changes by location then its very different for every model for instance a photographer in london will happily pay £40 for travel for a model, where i am we would be looking for the Ferrari 

 

Edited by Retouchguy

The bit in bold is the part that is nonsense.

TFP is an agreement between the photographer, model and anybody else involved to create images for whatever they agree between them.

Nobody else's opinion is important. There are no "rules".

Orson Carter for about the tenth time for those that don’t read the whole conversations - anyone cast cast for anything they want I’m not in any way saying they cannot and haven’t ever, and if models want paid more they can charge more nothing stopping them. Your taking a reply to a comment about photographers only wanting tf, editing it and using it in new context.