Models' fees

Infinity Valerie what did you have to do to become a professional model? Is there a great barrier to entry ?

Did you gain professional qualifications for it or does it simply mean you get paid ?

Edited by Lenswonder

Infinity Valerie said

Retouchguy as Jessica Knight pointed out earlier, 1/10 castings are for a TF these days, so many people are asking and paid jobs are becoming few. Of course you don't need to accept it, but when a large proportion can only offer TF, models end up taking their services to other countries as Maryna had already mentioned earlier in the post.

and as i pointed out almost 100% of model castings are paid castings so if a photographer wants TF he has to post a casting which is why you only see photographers casting for mostly TF, if they want a paid model there are plenty paid castings from models to chose from, if they want some TF they have to put up a casting.

Even models with zero portfolio these days charge for photoshoots and then state what type of shoot they want with there own plan etc so they can then sell same images on OF or admire me  which is crazy but there you go 

Just search for models in castings with TF or Content share, you will find empty pages in most areas. 

you're getting paid, you are correct its a hobby for many photographers, but its that way out of necessity because (Models do not pay) want proof, put up a casting for a photographer offering to pay see how many hundreds of applications you get for it from all the hobbyists photographers lol 

Edited by Retouchguy

Lenswonder this is my only job currently, and I don't have OF etc. I know of many models for who this is their only their job and has always been, I have had another job in the past before I was made redundant. The way things are going, I am looking at other streams to explore.

Edited by Infinity Valerie

For many models or is a source of income not just a hobby. For me I couldn't rely solely on these sites. I am primarily an actor and have an agent, I also do the admin for a theatre company who I act with, so for me modelling is part of my portfolio of work.

Very few can make a living out of modelling alone. Being freelance it does mean if I am not being paid for a shoot then I could be being paid for other work. This doesn't mean I do not do tf because I do. Usually the photographer approaches me directly and if it's a great idea and I like their work then it often worth doing. I usually work on the three legged stool principle. Will I enjoy it, will it enhance my career, is it paid. For it to work for me I need at least two legs, all three is the dream.

Lenswonder I've had to work my little bum off, actually, to get to the point where I get paid for my skills, for the way I present myself. I also have a university degree and many years experience working outside of modelling, all these transferable skills come in handy doing modelling.

Infinity Valerie said

{1} I wonder for how many photographers on this site photography is their only paying job, and not a hobby?

{2}  the scale tips the other way for models,

{3} to expect models to work for free or for next to nothing to sustain someone's hobby is frankly ludicrous.

{4}  A large proportion of photographers dream of shooting TF with a never ending supply of models 

{1} I'd guess less than 1%. 

{2} There are hobbyist models, but most want to paid, or depend on being paid

{3} And yet surprisingly common. People expect more than they pay for, expect to get rewards without putting in the work etc. 

{4} I don't think it is large, but it can be quite vocal, I think the "I don't have the money to pay models, but I expect to be able to shoot anyway" argument should be met with "Why, other than money, would the models you want to shoot take the gig?". There are only a few with an answer that stands up, and mostly they don't EXPECT, they count themselves lucky that they are able to.   

What do you have to do to be a model? That really is undervaluing our skills. Yes in some cases they happen to be young and pretty and take their tops off. This properly requires no skill. I happen to have 2 degrees in acting and drama. I have a string of film and live performance credits. I have been a director I know how to dress sets I know how to pose I know how to change expressions and emotions. I am not just tits on legs

If you were working 37 hours a week every week then £30 per hour would be ok, but not great.

As a model can not expect to be working such regular hours then charging a fare bit more per hour seems very reasonable to me.

The other side of this is that photographers, who do not make money from there pictures, have a limited budget.

The balance point of these two things is that if a model charges what they are actually worth they will get little to no work.  

This is the sad but realistic situation for many models. Only those with connections, luck or a very special look can make a good living from modelling.

Lenswonder said

Infinity Valerie address the fact that for some hobbyist photographers they have one job to fund a hobby. This hobby photographers pay for what apparently is your one job. With the many viable money making opportunities for models I find it hard to believe in this one job argument.

Edited by Lenswonder

Oddly enough, I don't find it hard to believe at all.  For many models it is, as Infinity Valerie says, their only job and sole means of income.

Retouchguy said 

 

and as i pointed out almost 100% of model castings are paid castings so if a photographer wants TF he has to post a casting  

Even models with zero portfolio these days charge for photoshoots and then state what type of shoot they want with there own plan etc so they can then sell same images on OF or admire me  which is crazy but there you go 

The first point is probably true. Models who can get paid either don't do free shoots, or do collaborations with people they already know. If some models put out TF castings PP's messaging system would break under the strain. 

The photographer looking to shoot for free probably can't go back to past models he's shot with, so is constant need of new ones. 

On the second, they try to charge, maybe the kind of guy who pays for content on Only Fanny will pay to meet performers, and bring his instamatic, and can derive pleasure from taking some snaps to be sold to the like minded. Some photographers DO pay for a model to come up with the ideas and styling, others want to do that themselves. But paying, shooting what you're told, putting additional time in to edit it, and then letting someone else sell it without sharing the proceeds isn't attractive to many people. 

The reason I asked what do you have to do to become a model is because the word 'professional' keeps being used. So for me this is a fair question.

Jessica Knight and this is why some models are in the category of models who deserve recognition of talent. Some models are also photographers, tutors and arts degree graduates.

The industry needs creative input from all sides to continue. I’ve had shoots where the model contributes to the shoot, chucks ideas into the ring and goes above and beyond.

Communication is key regardless of if it’s paid or unpaid.

I love working with others that bring skills to the table 😁

CalmNudes said

Retouchguy said 

 

and as i pointed out almost 100% of model castings are paid castings so if a photographer wants TF he has to post a casting  

Even models with zero portfolio these days charge for photoshoots and then state what type of shoot they want with there own plan etc so they can then sell same images on OF or admire me  which is crazy but there you go 

The first point is probably true. Models who can get paid either don't do free shoots, or do collaborations with people they already know. If some models put out TF castings PP's messaging system would break under the strain. 

The photographer looking to shoot for free probably can't go back to past models he's shot with, so is constant need of new ones. 

On the second, they try to charge, maybe the kind of guy who pays for content on Only Fanny will pay to meet performers, and bring his instamatic, and can derive pleasure from taking some snaps to be sold to the like minded. Some photographers DO pay for a model to come up with the ideas and styling, others want to do that themselves. But paying, shooting what you're told, putting additional time in to edit it, and then letting someone else sell it without sharing the proceeds isn't attractive to many people. 

Rubbish  search model casting in Scotland right now i guarantee you will find a few paid casting from models that tell you the theme they want, the style, the date etc and then you will see they all have OF or AM accounts where the images are for, the point of tf is to get mutual required images (Non commercial) technically models should legally pay for that.

Over the years its changed a lot and money only really flows the models direction which is fine, well for me it is, if i want to shoot with a specific model im happy to pay for the privilege but im not gonna accept that models are being picked on when they aren't.

Edited by Retouchguy

Lenswonder said

[snip]

The ignorance, greed and lack of empathy is enough now to want to make me slow down to a stop.

 

I have to admit to being rather confused - what ignorance, greed and lack of empathy?  Are you referring to this thread or something else?

MGraphics said

Jessica Knight and this is why some models are in the category of models who deserve recognition of talent. Some models are also photographers, tutors and arts degree graduates.

The industry needs creative input from all sides to continue. I’ve had shoots where the model contributes to the shoot, chucks ideas into the ring and goes above and beyond.

Communication is key regardless of if it’s paid or unpaid.

I love working with others that bring skills to the table 😁

We could do with a 'like' button