Models' fees

Jessica Knight said

I have also noticed many more castings asking for collaboration. A quick look just now at local castings and only one in ten is paid.  Times are hard the cost of coffee has gone up and models also have to eat. I cannot eat on collaboration. I have kept my fees  the same as they were five years ago. I don't know what else I can do. Agency and commercial work has thankfully kept up with inflation and this is my main income. Hobby photographer work hasn't. I am not blaming the photographers, they can't give what they don't have and if they love shooting but can't afford the model fee then I am sure they will find new starting models to collaborate with. Covid and then the finacial crisis have had huge effects on this in industry and I feel for those photographers who enjoy it being finacially squeezed.  

feel i should point out that if you do same search on models you will find a much smaller percentage the other way, meaning nearly if not all model castings are paid castings and very few ask for TF on a casting, therefor a photographer looking for TF needs to cast for it but if hes looking for a paid model there are plenty casting available. 

Now to add to that a model starting out that has little to no experience tends to still charge at full rate, where as a photographer starting out with little experience will most often have to pay full rate as TF is off the table.

Swings and roundabouts :-)  

Edited by Retouchguy

It seems that people think that because the culture in pp overall has been photographer pays models , that photographers must continually almost like drones follow this idea and them asking for tfp is apparently not right. In some people's minds a photographer daring to ask tfp is mugging off the model , you even see similar wording on model profiles. I think there's also a sense in models that any photographer living in London must somehow be loaded with money. I remember not long ago being berated by a photographer cause I dared to ask for tfp the concept apparently alien to him.

I'm so glad as a photographer I don't feel a strong need to book models in this present time.

It must boil down to choice and budget, you will have those who would't or indeed couldn't buy a coffee at any chosen coffee chain of choice, and the same applies to PP with models and photographers, thats the beauty of PP you have options from a TFP/Collaboration to hiring a top end professional whether this is for a hobby or pro on either side of the lens, and it is all down to choice if the photographer offers a £15ph which is their budget and a model choses to accept that I don't see the problem.

Retouchguy said

Jessica Knight said

I have also noticed many more castings asking for collaboration. A quick look just now at local castings and only one in ten is paid.  Times are hard the cost of coffee has gone up and models also have to eat. I cannot eat on collaboration. I have kept my fees  the same as they were five years ago. I don't know what else I can do. Agency and commercial work has thankfully kept up with inflation and this is my main income. Hobby photographer work hasn't. I am not blaming the photographers, they can't give what they don't have and if they love shooting but can't afford the model fee then I am sure they will find new starting models to collaborate with. Covid and then the finacial crisis have had huge effects on this in industry and I feel for those photographers who enjoy it being finacially squeezed.  

feel i should point out that if you do same search on models you will find a much smaller percentage the other way, meaning nearly if not all model castings are paid castings and very few ask for TF on a casting, therefor a photographer looking for TF needs to cast for it but if hes looking for a paid model there are plenty casting available. 

Now to add to that a model starting out that has little to no experience tends to still charge at full rate, where as a photographer starting out with little experience will most often have to pay full rate as TF is off the table.

Swings and roundabouts :-)  

Experienced models tend to approach photographers direct for TF. If, as a photographer, you're not already in that loop then I suspect the vast majority of photographers casting for TF will experience little more than tumbleweed.

I've only ever approached a model once for TF, so I could be wrong, but I suspect sensible, well-planned and well-communicated direct approaches to specific models will yield better results than castings.

FiL said

Retouchguy said

Jessica Knight said

I have also noticed many more castings asking for collaboration. A quick look just now at local castings and only one in ten is paid.  Times are hard the cost of coffee has gone up and models also have to eat. I cannot eat on collaboration. I have kept my fees  the same as they were five years ago. I don't know what else I can do. Agency and commercial work has thankfully kept up with inflation and this is my main income. Hobby photographer work hasn't. I am not blaming the photographers, they can't give what they don't have and if they love shooting but can't afford the model fee then I am sure they will find new starting models to collaborate with. Covid and then the finacial crisis have had huge effects on this in industry and I feel for those photographers who enjoy it being finacially squeezed.  

feel i should point out that if you do same search on models you will find a much smaller percentage the other way, meaning nearly if not all model castings are paid castings and very few ask for TF on a casting, therefor a photographer looking for TF needs to cast for it but if hes looking for a paid model there are plenty casting available. 

Now to add to that a model starting out that has little to no experience tends to still charge at full rate, where as a photographer starting out with little experience will most often have to pay full rate as TF is off the table.

Swings and roundabouts :-)  

Experienced models tend to approach photographers direct for TF. If, as a photographer, you're not already in that loop then I suspect the vast majority of photographers casting for TF will experience little more than tumbleweed.

I've only ever approached a model once for TF, so I could be wrong, but I suspect sensible, well-planned and well-communicated direct approaches to specific models will yield better results than castings.

i think you misunderstand, i was merely pointing out that the posters point had another side to it, i wasn't complaining about a lack of TF, merely pointing out that if photographers did not put castings up for TF when they wanted it then there would be no TF castings.

And adding the point that brand new models with no experience, who don't know how to pose, or what a facial expression is charge just as much as a seasoned model which really should not be but photographers pay so it goes on, little or a lot unfair on the seasoned models to be honest imho 

Edited by Retouchguy

Retouchguy said

FiL said

Retouchguy said

Jessica Knight said

I have also noticed many more castings asking for collaboration. A quick look just now at local castings and only one in ten is paid.  Times are hard the cost of coffee has gone up and models also have to eat. I cannot eat on collaboration. I have kept my fees  the same as they were five years ago. I don't know what else I can do. Agency and commercial work has thankfully kept up with inflation and this is my main income. Hobby photographer work hasn't. I am not blaming the photographers, they can't give what they don't have and if they love shooting but can't afford the model fee then I am sure they will find new starting models to collaborate with. Covid and then the finacial crisis have had huge effects on this in industry and I feel for those photographers who enjoy it being finacially squeezed.  

feel i should point out that if you do same search on models you will find a much smaller percentage the other way, meaning nearly if not all model castings are paid castings and very few ask for TF on a casting, therefor a photographer looking for TF needs to cast for it but if hes looking for a paid model there are plenty casting available. 

Now to add to that a model starting out that has little to no experience tends to still charge at full rate, where as a photographer starting out with little experience will most often have to pay full rate as TF is off the table.

Swings and roundabouts :-)  

Experienced models tend to approach photographers direct for TF. If, as a photographer, you're not already in that loop then I suspect the vast majority of photographers casting for TF will experience little more than tumbleweed.

I've only ever approached a model once for TF, so I could be wrong, but I suspect sensible, well-planned and well-communicated direct approaches to specific models will yield better results than castings.

i think you misunderstand, i was merely pointing out that the posters point had another side to it, i wasn't complaining about a lack of TF, merely pointing out that if photographers did not put castings up for TF when they wanted it then there would be no TF castings.

And adding the point that brand new models with no experience, who don't know how to pose, or what a facial expression is charge just as much as a seasoned model which really should not be but photographers pay so it goes on, little or a lot unfair on the seasoned models to be honest imho 

I disagree, but I understand why many photographers link value to time served. For me, though, it's about the model's look, brand spanking new or not; and a new model with no experience whatsoever is generally less painful to work with than one who has completed a dozen or more shoots.

FiL said

Retouchguy said

Jessica Knight said

I have also noticed many more castings asking for collaboration. A quick look just now at local castings and only one in ten is paid.  Times are hard the cost of coffee has gone up and models also have to eat. I cannot eat on collaboration. I have kept my fees  the same as they were five years ago. I don't know what else I can do. Agency and commercial work has thankfully kept up with inflation and this is my main income. Hobby photographer work hasn't. I am not blaming the photographers, they can't give what they don't have and if they love shooting but can't afford the model fee then I am sure they will find new starting models to collaborate with. Covid and then the finacial crisis have had huge effects on this in industry and I feel for those photographers who enjoy it being finacially squeezed.  

feel i should point out that if you do same search on models you will find a much smaller percentage the other way, meaning nearly if not all model castings are paid castings and very few ask for TF on a casting, therefor a photographer looking for TF needs to cast for it but if hes looking for a paid model there are plenty casting available. 

Now to add to that a model starting out that has little to no experience tends to still charge at full rate, where as a photographer starting out with little experience will most often have to pay full rate as TF is off the table.

Swings and roundabouts :-)  

Experienced models tend to approach photographers direct for TF. If, as a photographer, you're not already in that loop then I suspect the vast majority of photographers casting for TF will experience little more than tumbleweed.

I've only ever approached a model once for TF, so I could be wrong, but I suspect sensible, well-planned and well-communicated direct approaches to specific models will yield better results than castings.

and also this is not true in my experience, people of all abilities on PP directly request TF or content share daily with both new and experienced people, Maybe more experienced models will contact more experienced photographers more to add better work to there port but the same will go for photographers with contacting more experienced or higher end models for TF to improve or add to there ports but these days much more likely just paid work tbf. and also used to be if it was paid then you would not give images hens the need for TF but these days even on paid shoots models get images which has added to decline in TF, photographs that many models then add to there OF or Admireme accounts to make more money btw 

Gothic Image said

Can anyone remember what this thread was actually about? :-(

The price of coffee I think?

I wonder for how many photographers on this site photography is their only paying job, and not a hobby? Based off the many profile notes I read and many answers I've seen throughout different posts, I would say for a large proportion it's a hobby. On the contrary, the scale tips the other way for models, for many it is their only paying job and contrary to popular belief- we also like to eat, pay bills, maybe enjoy ourselves once in a while. It seems that many photographers forget this very simple fact that for many models it's their only paying job, and to expect models to work for free or for next to nothing to sustain someone's hobby is frankly ludicrous. There are exceptions to this of course, if the photographer is highly skilled to the point where he produces works of art, then models would approach them directly if said photographer only offers a TF. A large proportion of photographers dream of shooting TF with a never ending supply of models, but like I said, for some it's a hobby, for others it's a job that puts bread on the table.

Edited by Infinity Valerie

Infinity Valerie this argument about it being a photographers hobby does not matter. You are now making the argument that modelling is apparently most models one stream of money yet earlier a model mentioned that a model could have another job or stream of money meaning they do not have to sell themselves short.

So in the end the view is that photographers just have to put up and shut up and have no standing.

This is a freelance site what happens between individuals who meet is upto them , purpleport as a company is not your employer nor individual photographers. Photographers are also in the same boat in many cases , the fact that you did not think of addressing that in your post beggars belief.

I'll add if modelling is your only paying job in these modern times it's hardly a photographers fault or responsibility.

Edited by Lenswonder

Lenswonder I didn't address what? Whatever happens between hobbyist models and hobbyist photographers is up to them. I was talking about models for who modelling is their only job, and to expect professional models to work for free to sustain someone's hobby is ludicrous. My hobby might be to dance, but I wouldn't expect to receive free lessons from a professional dancer just because that's how I want things to be.

Infinity Valerie address the fact that for some hobbyist photographers they have one job to fund a hobby. This hobby photographers pay for what apparently is your one job. With the many viable money making opportunities for models I find it hard to believe in this one job argument.

Edited by Lenswonder

Infinity Valerie said

Lenswonder I didn't address what? Whatever happens between hobbyist models and hobbyist photographers is up to them. I was talking about models for who modelling is their only job, and to expect professional models to work for free to sustain someone's hobby is ludicrous. My hobby might be to dance, but I wouldn't expect to receive free lessons from a professional dancer just because that's how I want things to be.

Sorry but whos asking anyone to work for free ? if someone askes anyone to do tf its a request not a demand if your not interested in tf you just decline and move on, nobody sais you need to accept 

The more and more models speak despite the fact that there are very nice models I've met, the more I'm happy I do not shoot as often anymore and spend money on models.

The ignorance, greed and lack of empathy is enough now to want to make me slow down to a stop.

Edited by Lenswonder

Retouchguy as Jessica Knight pointed out earlier, 1/10 castings are for a TF these days, so many people are asking and paid jobs are becoming few. Of course you don't need to accept it, but when a large proportion can only offer TF, models end up taking their services to other countries as Maryna had already mentioned earlier in the post.