Models' fees

To me there is a big difference between hobby clients and commercial clients. I know to some photography is just for fun so I know they will have a small budget.

Not saying I would apply for castings below my own "hobbiest" rates, but some models will so no harm in them advertising for what they are looking for and what they are willing to spend.

I'm sure even some full time models may apply for lower rates sometimes to fill up their time and income.

I consider myself lucky - I have a very good full time career, plus modelling work, plus photography work so I can afford to be picky with what I apply to. I definitely feel that modelling is a very very tough full time job.

Nope put simply a model is not a coffee, you cannot compare pp to Costa coffee, they have overheads like electricity gas wasteables and that’s why the sharp rise, this is a vastly different market, if a model on pp started charging 60 - 80 per hour they would not make much money at all if any, to most this is a hobby , real life most cannot go without electric or gas so they pay whatever the charge is, but if this is a hobby then there’s no need if it’s a job then the cost trickles down to the client who will always move to cheaper model that fits

Edited by Retouchguy

Plumbers have never had a problem knowing what to charge, use that as a guide.

The initial lesson I would draw from this is that you should go to independent coffee shops. You'd be spending a bit less, in many cases, and getting a lot more.

Joking aside: I agree with everything you say but find my own (highly-skilled) freelance rate stuck at a very low rate because this is not unique to models at all: all freelancers experience buyers doing fantasy maths based on just their take-home pay to justify paying freelancers less than they need to live, and yes, as more buyers feel the squeeze in their own salaries, it gets worse for freelancers. It will continue to get worse for freelancers because we don't catch up in feast times; it's always famine now.

Average house price and average salary are difficult, because of enormous national disparities, but it's 12x the individual salary in Cornwall, for example. And indeed policy doesn't really consider this stuff: houses are broadly considered in terms of annual joint salary of a couple, even as a greater and greater proportion of working people are not in such relationships.

You make some fair points but I guess this market is pretty straight forward and therefore prices ought to find their own fair level based upon the laws of supply and demand. If photographers are generally baulking at paying higher rates then it seems inevitable that models will stop working (because they won't be able to afford it) or they will work more overseas and we will see fewer experienced models in the UK. That said I am hearing some models say that work is drying up due to lack of shoots because photographers can't (or won't) to shoot as frequently as they once did.

As you say it would be good to hear models views but at the end of the day - like every other free market - if we (the photographers) aren't prepared to pay then the models won't be able to afford to shoot. But if the models keep working at the current rates then the market can be shown to be operating correctly.      

That's an interesting comment Holly Alexander .  This is a hobby for me and just for fun, which is exactly why I don't have a small budget!  I'm very happy to spend a lot of money on things I enjoy doing.  However, my budget is smaller for things I don't enjoy (eg I'm sitting here in an electric blanket because it's chaeper than putting the heating on!).

Retouchguy How did you know it was Costa?  It was, actually :)

I remember the first time I went to Starbucks in Geneva, I noticed the prices when I was second in line to be served and started discreetly walking backwards, back out of the shop. There was this awkward moment when the cashier made eye contact and I managed to shuffle off. 

another thing to ask yourself is this , the average rate for model is between 30 - 40 per hour ish depending obviously on genre etc, cost of living may have risen but did minimum wage ? Did any wage ? So if photographers wages haven’t risen is it fair or appropriate to raid model wages. Just saying

Edited by Retouchguy

Retouchguy said

Nope put simply a model is not a coffee, you cannot compare pp to Costa coffee, they have overheads like electricity gas wasteables and that’s why the sharp rise, this is a vastly different market, if a model on pp started charging 60 - 80 per hour they would not make much money at all if any, to most this is a hobby , real life most cannot go without electric or gas so they pay whatever the charge is, but if this is a hobby then there’s no need if it’s a job then the cost trickles down to the client who will always move to cheaper model that fits

It is not a safe assumption anymore to assume that simply because many models here are modelling on evenings and weekends around another job, they are not doing it for the money.

I may not routinely believe the "modelling is my main job" justification, but I think even imagining that young people today have "main jobs" is an unwieldy assumption when a very high proportion of those "main jobs" lack two of the key criteria for primary "job" employment: guaranteed minimum hours or guaranteed minimum income.

Chris Green said

Retouchguy How did you know it was Costa?  It was, actually :)

This is where you fail ;-) Though it is a reliable place for a tuna melt, it's an urban myth that you can get coffee in Costa.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Chris Green guessed 🤣

Chris Green everyone is different I guess! But I'd never expect the same budget as big companies from one individual's hobby. Of course, more the better haha! I still draw a line myself so there are a lot of people I wouldn't work with but I'm sure they find models that will as the market is very large

Edited by Holly Alexander

Perception That's a very funny anecdote! 😂

I'm not sure about a drain on models going overseas, more likely they will just stop modelling. Or find a different possibly more erotic form as in other websites that may involve less modelling and more something porn-like. I wouldn't comment on what photographers are offering because well at least they are offering something & are usually the one side doing so.

With models in EU some are in some sort of model union type thing , I'm not exactly sure how it works. However, if no one wants to pay for the prices no one will get paid.