Is it just me or is there a growing divide between models and photographers (especially on the forums)?

WomanlyWench said

Natural Happy Woman

I agree with you about the mansplaining comment.

There's a lot of evidence to suggest misogynistic behaviour in abundance, rules the forums and I'm afraid that I'm prepared to retaliate, just like I do in real life situations.

Forums are just real people making comments about themselves and real life situations.

We're all different and the forum reflects those differences.

Good to see you having a successful clear out. I need to do the same thing. Hope you managed to sell most of it. I loved your response to the tax avoidance remark.

Good for you.

Edited by WomanlyWench

Edited by WomanlyWench

It is not the first time I have read or heard on a shoot comments about mansplaining and misogynistic behaviour in the forums and I guess that bothers me...

I am with you, the forums should reflect and respect our differences - unfortunately they don’t always respect them

gjp

You have a good point here. But there is more to this whole subject.

I have been a Purpleport member for six and a half years.

In that time the number of people who are members of PP has grown exponentially.

With such a vast increase in membership there will also be an increase in the number of, well let us say crappy and Obnoxious people.

You will therefore get an increase in photographers making negative posts about models and vice versa.

Flo X said

I like a white knight, and I also like your intention of spreading a little peace.

egos....

My ego tells me this.

I need both in my life. I need to shoot myself to explore my own erotica and understand my body's voice and I need a photographer to shoot me too. I am lucky that I enjoy both in rather different ways let's say... The only one condition for the latter is I get paid my good rates and I pose the way that is true to me. That is all.

this way, it is simply put on my profile and there is no misunderstanding. Those stirred away from me who would only do tfp or try make me who am not. And that is exactly how I like it.

Some photographers do not want to pay women to pose for them, some do. It is just that simple. Some who ask tfp are very good at it, some less so and makes you wonder. Some women are happy to shoot for free with anyone, some not. This is the divide.

I am my own photographer but I also need photographers to capture me well. I need both. But tfp is not for me. My expectations are so high that it most likely would lead to disappointment and I cannot risk that. The money is the one thing that I know is real. If I get amazing shots then it is a wonderful feeling for both of us. If I get some shots to me for me to share on my PP port, then even better and I am grateful for those.

I agree - there is room for everyone and every way of working respectfully with each other

If something is not for you, just move on from it. Just because it isn’t right for you, doesn’t mean it isn’t perfect for someone else.

Work with people who meet your needs, and accept not everyone you want to work with will fit into that category 

I love your honesty and straightforwardness - refreshing and no room for misunderstandings 

thank you

Edited by Flo X

Dennis Bloodnok Photography said

gjp

You have a good point here. But there is more to this whole subject.

I have been a Purpleport member for six and a half years.

In that time the number of people who are members of PP has grown exponentially.

With such a vast increase in membership there will also be an increase in the number of, well let us say crappy and Obnoxious people.

You will therefore get an increase in photographers making negative posts about models and vice versa.

An interesting way to look at it

So proportionately it may be the same but it can seem more prevalent to us who have been knocking around a while

I just wish there was a little more tolerance on each side :)

I think it’s just you

Models have never dominated the forums on account of having better stuff to do and not really being interested in the shit that Middle Aged farts are into.

There have always been angry ‘togs’ generating threads that obliquely apply pressure to models to change the way they operate - whether whinges about models castings, tiered fees for levels or getting images from paid shoots - it’s never really changed.

What has changed is just how easy it is to make super cool images with ‘basic’ gear these days. Photography has become easy. Models can do it and are often rather good at it. They can shoot other models and give them awesome pics and pack the front page with their FPIs from shoots that are often better fun than those with grumpy old men like us :(

That makes some people angry, and they post bitchy threads to whinge about it.

It was always a bit like this

I find the forums are getting less toxic than they were.

There are some famously obnoxious cockwonbles that no longer stalk the forums. Is the politics forum still as "informative" as it used to be?

 I've been a member for 7 years, and model input in the General forums has always been proportionally low.

For several years, models who have posted on threads similar to this have stated they stay away to avoid the toxicity that can suddenly appear on threads from nowhere.

Minor disagreements can turn in to full scale wars of words where both parties refuse to walk away and commandeer the thread.

Part of the problem is you read in the mood that you are in, and not in the mood of the poster.

I think that many other users - not just models - are now more reluctant to post their thoughts on a subject , especially if they are different to others. 

I talk with lots of models, and the one thing that most of them say to me is that they read the forums, but have found it easier not to contribute for fear of being shot down, this is quite sad, as a lot of these models could offer a great input into the forums, one model recently said she was really annoyed with certain comments being made on a recent thread and wanted to comment but decided not to in fear it could back fire and damage her modeling work,  so perhaps as photographers we are in some respects our own worst enemy as our actions on the forums could have an adverse and negative impact on how successful we are in working with certain models...

John VonGeezer said

I think it’s just you

Models have never dominated the forums on account of having better stuff to do and not really being interested in the shit that Middle Aged farts are into.

There have always been angry ‘togs’ generating threads that obliquely apply pressure to models to change the way they operate - whether whinges about models castings, tiered fees for levels or getting images from paid shoots - it’s never really changed.

What has changed is just how easy it is to make super cool images with ‘basic’ gear these days. Photography has become easy. Models can do it and are often rather good at it. They can shoot other models and give them awesome pics and pack the front page with their FPIs from shoots that are often better fun than those with grumpy old men like us :(

That makes some people angry, and they post bitchy threads to whinge about it.

It was always a bit like this

It could well just be me - it wouldn’t be the first time and unlikely to be the last :)

Time for us grumpy old men to up our game then ;)

Tiny Tog said

I find the forums are getting less toxic than they were.

There are some famously obnoxious cockwonbles that no longer stalk the forums. Is the politics forum still as "informative" as it used to be?

I always avoided the politics forum - I never discuss politics or religion with people I don’t know and are unlikely to actually want a discussion :)

What I notice on threads is

1. Some do have carte Blanche to type anything, a clique thing.

2. Man says something critical say about the subject of rates , he is labelled a bad guy.

3. Women says same as men above , not one word against her.

4. A large concentration of white knights. Repeatedly posting the same messages on every and any subject.

As for a this divide I only notice when people make threads about it, in large headlines.

So I choose to stay off threads mostly now.

Edited by Blackfyre

Edited by Blackfyre

Some group stats for your viewing pleasure, and of course for perspective;

In the last 30 days
1361 new posts created by 751 people, or about 2.8% of the active members of PP
34113 replies created by 1861 people, or about 7% of the active members of PP
26186 logged in during that time.
The groups and related pages were viewed ~26,000 times yesterday, or ~2.5% of the roughly 1m pageviews PP gets each day.

...

Not many of the membership participate in the groups (contributing or viewing), and not much of the PP daily traffic goes to the groups. Contrast that with 673,000 pageviews for images, and 170,000 pageviews for portfolios.

Perspective is such an interesting thing. I see people stomping off PP because of activity in the groups but to me they appear to have lost perspective on things. It would be like stomping off facebook because there is a group on there you don't like (and I am 100% certain there are many groups on FB you don't like).

For as long as I can remember groups/forums/BBs/usenet have always had a vocal minority that have way too big an influence. Along the bumpy journey of running PP we have had the pleasure of some of these vocal minority who have always ended up either banned from PP or had the privilege of posting in the groups permanently revoked. Admin are currently eyeing a few people who seem to think anything-goes in the groups, or that they are untouchable for some reason.

At least we don't have posts like this one or this one(get them while PS is still alive!), stuff like that provided immense entertainment but also, sadly, demonstrated what a horrid place groups/forums can be.

MM has similar problems, and it's membership also allows the minority to grossly affect the perception of the majority.

One thing that really puzzles me is the perception of "cliques" in the groups and that Admin treat these folks differently. PP is a business not a group of mates down the pub. If someone, anyone, is being disruptive then they will lose site privileges no matter who they are but if they are not reported then Admin won't know about it.

...

Going forward I do wish more people would post, and I wish people would remember where they are posting and be mindful about that. I also wish people would report posts more so that people who are aggressive in the groups can have a cooling off period.

Just to add that PP is actually very good at moderating its forums - I recently reported a post which I considered to be rude, aggressive and insulting to other members and it was removed.

They can only do this if people report - so don't be afraid to report someone if you think their contribution is inappropriate, or likely to deter other members from having their say too.

Forums tend to be contributed to by a tiny fraction of users, most of whom are for whatever reason simply disposed towards participation in forums.

Some of these (like me) are naturally competitive in discourse because we enjoy banter, word play, sparring, and challenging ourselves and others. I’ve been like this since I was a little kid and the Internet didn’t exist. Robust interaction was part of the way you demonstrated respect towards and interest in the people around you.

There also seem to be some people who interpret this as nasty behaviour intended to cause unhappiness. I never really came across this kind of sensitivity until I started using forums. At first, I thought they were trolling by pretending to be offended or concerned about the banter. Today such people sometimes get disparagingly called snowflakes. I don’t know enough about psychology or sociology to explain their reactions but certainly they seem to be a different kind of group from the first one I mentioned.

Thete are also those with a far more socially neutral way of interacting.

In all, I find it very tempting to conjecture that what people imagine is ‘toxic’ is really their own discomfort at encountering people with a different approach to them that they find hard to account for and fear it means the worst.

And to return to my opening observation, this is all itself among the tiny bubble of folk who actually use the forums.

As for PP, it goes from strength to strength in providing a means to network with superb creative people. I continue to have very satisfactory and successful shoots with lovely people with the help of PP’s facilities.

I don’t at all see the negative trends that a few have posited.

Edited by skymouse