Just making a point

One Bright Spark said

ANDY00 said

One Bright Spark said

I was taking about the judges/elves - a lot of members (some on here and some togs/models I speak to in the real world) seem to feel it is unfair that it is a secret club (I am unsure who gains from this) so just putting it out there as a question to be answered as a relative newbie.

I think that is for the safety of those individuals and to ensure fairness. If everyone knew who was involved in the selections, dont you think there wouldn’t be some intimidation or bribery going on? Why would you possibly think that revealing who chooses would make it fairer?

Safety of individuals - not sure they need that much protection do they? Perhaps you know something I don't.

They are all adults I imagine so one would hope that they would have moral standards and decency (to not go down the bribery and corruption route) but this is the human race we are taking about so I fully understand your point.

Was just an idea to try and find a solution to appease members that complain it is the same ol' members getting FPIs etc then there wouldn't have an argument against it.

There are literally posts every week from people complaining that their images don’t get an FPI, even though they weren’t suggested in the first place. Clearly, people get very heated over the subject. If I were an elf, I wouldn’t want people to know. I’d probably end up getting a lot of abuse or people begging—or both! As it is now, it’s just about the images. Isn’t that what it should be about—the images?

ANDY00 said

One Bright Spark said

ANDY00 said

One Bright Spark said

I was taking about the judges/elves - a lot of members (some on here and some togs/models I speak to in the real world) seem to feel it is unfair that it is a secret club (I am unsure who gains from this) so just putting it out there as a question to be answered as a relative newbie.

I think that is for the safety of those individuals and to ensure fairness. If everyone knew who was involved in the selections, dont you think there wouldn’t be some intimidation or bribery going on? Why would you possibly think that revealing who chooses would make it fairer?

Safety of individuals - not sure they need that much protection do they? Perhaps you know something I don't.

They are all adults I imagine so one would hope that they would have moral standards and decency (to not go down the bribery and corruption route) but this is the human race we are taking about so I fully understand your point.

Was just an idea to try and find a solution to appease members that complain it is the same ol' members getting FPIs etc then there wouldn't have an argument against it.

There are literally posts every week from people complaining that their images don’t get an FPI, even though they weren’t suggested in the first place. Clearly, people get very heated over the subject. If I were an elf, I wouldn’t want people to know. I’d probably end up getting a lot of abuse or people begging—or both! As it is now, it’s just about the images. Isn’t that what it should be about—the images?

Of course it should be about the images I completely agree.

I am so surprised this touches such a raw nerve with so many and it was just a simple question to see if there was a way to stop the moans and groans from all angles.

Gothic Image said

ANDY00 said

The system is transparent, if you or someone suggests an image it go's to - HERE - then if they are deamed of high enough standard and within the rules they go - Here -  :-)

As a reminder, the FPIs aren't any award of quality, skill or anything else (although those obviously help) they are simply the images that PP chooses to represent itself to the world.  There are plenty of great images that don't meet that criteria, it doesn't mean that they are "worse" than the FPIs.  It's all explained here.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not an Elf.

FPIs are what individuals make of them, not what you say they are. If someone sees it as an accomplishment, then it’s an accomplishment. If someone views it as advertising, it’s advertising. If they see it as an award, then it’s an award. Saying that it has to be what you think doesn’t change how others perceive it. thats what it is to you...

One Bright Spark said

ANDY00 said

One Bright Spark said

ANDY00 said

One Bright Spark said

I was taking about the judges/elves - a lot of members (some on here and some togs/models I speak to in the real world) seem to feel it is unfair that it is a secret club (I am unsure who gains from this) so just putting it out there as a question to be answered as a relative newbie.

I think that is for the safety of those individuals and to ensure fairness. If everyone knew who was involved in the selections, dont you think there wouldn’t be some intimidation or bribery going on? Why would you possibly think that revealing who chooses would make it fairer?

Safety of individuals - not sure they need that much protection do they? Perhaps you know something I don't.

They are all adults I imagine so one would hope that they would have moral standards and decency (to not go down the bribery and corruption route) but this is the human race we are taking about so I fully understand your point.

Was just an idea to try and find a solution to appease members that complain it is the same ol' members getting FPIs etc then there wouldn't have an argument against it.

There are literally posts every week from people complaining that their images don’t get an FPI, even though they weren’t suggested in the first place. Clearly, people get very heated over the subject. If I were an elf, I wouldn’t want people to know. I’d probably end up getting a lot of abuse or people begging—or both! As it is now, it’s just about the images. Isn’t that what it should be about—the images?

Of course it should be about the images I completely agree.

I am so surprised this touches such a raw nerve with so many and it was just a simple question to see if there was a way to stop the moans and groans from all angles.

I would love there to be a fair system that everyone just liked, but in the history of this site and the one before it, it’s always been an argument and always will be, I’m afraid :-) 

ANDY00 said

I would love there to be a fair system that everyone just liked, but in the history of this site and the one before it, it’s always been an argument and always will be, I’m afraid :-) 

Unfortunately it's human nature that some people will see something as "unfair" if it doesn't benefit them?

Lenswonder said

Starglider Photography what I said is not very wrong there's definitely truth to it but of course it's my opinion. I am not telling you to agree with it or anyone else and I can voice that opinion.

There's no truth to it, it's easy enough to join the selection team and see for yourself. I did for a while, it's quite time consuming if you do it properly.

When other forms of validation are difficult to come by, getting an FPI can provide quite a boost to morale and the desire to continue.

I have only received a modest number of FPI's during my time here, while others have racked up hundreds. 

I got one recently and I suspect like most people felt that it was indeed richly deserved and could perhaps have come a bit sooner!

I think they do cause me to have a more realistic impression of the value of my work than I might otherwise have, and perhaps also a better idea of why it does not compete so well with that of other photographers.

And I can't resist the obvious question - do people think the site would be as interesting and sticky without them?

ANDY00 said

Just to make a point I've raised a few times: the image below was uploaded six months ago and accumulated around 29 likes in 6 months. Then, after being selected for an FPI, it received nearly 100 likes in 12 hours, 400 views, and was added to two collections, plus nearly all coments were added after it was featured apart from one.

Anyone who says FPIs mean nothing is simply wrong. ...

ANDY00 said

FPIs are what individuals make of them, not what you say they are. If someone sees it as an accomplishment, then it’s an accomplishment. If someone views it as advertising, it’s advertising. If they see it as an award, then it’s an award. Saying that it has to be what you think doesn’t change how others perceive it. thats what it is to you...

LOL.

Ergo, if someone sees it as nothing, it's nothing.

It seems to me you've just shot yourself in the foot and rendered your own 'point' pointless.

FiL said

ANDY00 said

Just to make a point I've raised a few times: the image below was uploaded six months ago and accumulated around 29 likes in 6 months. Then, after being selected for an FPI, it received nearly 100 likes in 12 hours, 400 views, and was added to two collections, plus nearly all coments were added after it was featured apart from one.

Anyone who says FPIs mean nothing is simply wrong. ...

ANDY00 said

FPIs are what individuals make of them, not what you say they are. If someone sees it as an accomplishment, then it’s an accomplishment. If someone views it as advertising, it’s advertising. If they see it as an award, then it’s an award. Saying that it has to be what you think doesn’t change how others perceive it. thats what it is to you...

LOL.

Ergo, if someone sees it as nothing, it's nothing.

It seems to me you've just shot yourself in the foot and rendered your own 'point' pointless.

why, my post is clearly not directed at those that dont want them is it........ 

ANDY00 said

FiL said

ANDY00 said

Just to make a point I've raised a few times: the image below was uploaded six months ago and accumulated around 29 likes in 6 months. Then, after being selected for an FPI, it received nearly 100 likes in 12 hours, 400 views, and was added to two collections, plus nearly all coments were added after it was featured apart from one.

Anyone who says FPIs mean nothing is simply wrong. ...

ANDY00 said

FPIs are what individuals make of them, not what you say they are. If someone sees it as an accomplishment, then it’s an accomplishment. If someone views it as advertising, it’s advertising. If they see it as an award, then it’s an award. Saying that it has to be what you think doesn’t change how others perceive it. thats what it is to you...

LOL.

Ergo, if someone sees it as nothing, it's nothing.

It seems to me you've just shot yourself in the foot and rendered your own 'point' pointless.

why, my post is clearly not directed at those that dont want them is it........ 

Is that supposed to be a question or an expression of self-doubt?

FiL said

ANDY00 said

FiL said

ANDY00 said

Just to make a point I've raised a few times: the image below was uploaded six months ago and accumulated around 29 likes in 6 months. Then, after being selected for an FPI, it received nearly 100 likes in 12 hours, 400 views, and was added to two collections, plus nearly all coments were added after it was featured apart from one.

Anyone who says FPIs mean nothing is simply wrong. ...

ANDY00 said

FPIs are what individuals make of them, not what you say they are. If someone sees it as an accomplishment, then it’s an accomplishment. If someone views it as advertising, it’s advertising. If they see it as an award, then it’s an award. Saying that it has to be what you think doesn’t change how others perceive it. thats what it is to you...

LOL.

Ergo, if someone sees it as nothing, it's nothing.

It seems to me you've just shot yourself in the foot and rendered your own 'point' pointless.

why, my post is clearly not directed at those that dont want them is it........ 

Is that supposed to be a question or an expression of self-doubt?

I’m a little puzzled as to why you posed that question in the first place. The post is clearly meant to highlight the benefits of the FPI system for those who appreciate it, and that’s who it’s directed toward. If someone genuinely sees no value in FPIs, it’s curious why they’d even bother reading, let alone participating, in a discussion focused on the positive aspects of the system. It seems like you're arguing just to argue. This post isn’t for those who don’t care—it’s for those who see the value and merit in it. So, why engage if you don’t? 

And yes, an FPI is what people see it as—if they think it’s worthless, then to them it’s worthless. But it seems they can’t help trying to push their view of its value onto others as well.

Although I'm sure its not rigged etc in terms of favoritism - there is an obvious higher chance to get fpi's based on how many followers a photographer or model has and how long they have been an active member or spend on pp
Those who have been members for years and years are way more likely to have more followers compared to users who are newer etc and more likely to have work seen when uploaded

I'm on the fence as sure it's nice to get one but some people worship fpi's on this site like it actually means something - it does not, apart from some likes and loves for a day

Getting thousands of views on reels/galleries on instagram gives way more recognition from my point of view

Edited by Jay Harrison Photography

Jay Harrison Photography said

Although I'm sure its not rigged etc in terms of favoritism - there is an obvious higher chance to get fpi's based on how many followers a photographer or model has and how long they have been an active member or spend on pp
Those who have been members for years and years are way more likely to have more followers compared to users who are newer etc and more likely to have work seen when uploaded

I'm on the fence as sure it's nice to get one but some people worship fpi's on this site like it actually means something - it does not, apart from some likes and loves for a day

Getting thousands of views on reels/galleries on instagram gives way more recognition from my point of view

Edited by Jay Harrison Photography

I don’t believe it has anything to do with how long someone has been on this site, except that those who’ve been here longer might have a better idea of what has a higher chance of becoming an FPI. There are people who have only been here a few months and already have a dozen FPIs because their work gets suggested more often. There’s a certain level of quality and standard they look for, and I personally have a high success rate in suggesting images that end up as FPIs. That’s because I can often see the potential in an image to meet that criteria more in others work than my own, and I do so without paying attention to who took it. To me, the most important thing is the image itself.

ANDY00 said

...But it seems they can’t help trying to push their view of its value onto others as well.

Heaven forbid that anyone would do that.

Orson Carter said

ANDY00 said

...But it seems they can’t help trying to push their view of its value onto others as well.

Heaven forbid that anyone would do that.

i deserve that :-)