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What’s your approach to methodology?

 

Unfocussed Mike

By Unfocussed Mike, 1731509680

I am posting this in General Off Topic because it’s not really quite a photography thing. But I think we’re all people with different experiences and lives who have photographic things in common one way or another, so read it that way if you prefer.

I only have “the concepts of a plan” for this post... but: how do you approach methodology?

Are you someone who is particularly methodical and methodological — that is, how do you feel about following instructions and designing methods for yourself? Do you stick to the recipe, do you prefer to understand the concepts in the recipe so you don’t have to stick to it, or do you just wing it?

How have you found that learning a method properly has had compounding benefits later on? Is there something in your creative/hobby life you know you have to go back and learn properly one day, to help you get further?

What is your tolerance for helping people who have complex problems but seem to have dodged some methodology that might have avoided the entire problem? How do you approach explaining this to people?

The non-compulsory backstory to this post is below. Feel free to TL;DR! But if you have stories about this (I can think of several from my day job), please do tell them. Like: really from any domain. Music, makeup, creative writing, woodworking, database design...



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Non-compulsory TL;DR back-story:

I am in a really helpful group on Facebook, for FreeCAD. This is powerful but really idiosyncratic software, that can do amazing things but does require a certain level of engagement. It's a bit of a lifestyle choice.

The super short summary of CAD is that one approach involves drawing things in two dimensional “sketches”, and then transforming them into a third — e.g. a cube is a 2D square that is stretched in its third dimension, a cylinder is the same but from a circle, a sort of flower sketch can make a cog. You can make complex things by combining the solids made this way. 

If you are approaching this methodically, you can use tools to “constrain” these sketches by giving extra measurements and guide rules (this line is 10mm long; these two lines are parallel; these two are at right angles; these two circles share the same centre point, etc.).  You can also tell the package that some geometry is shared between two sketches, so it knows two points are the same in 3D space, two lines are on the same line, two flat surfaces are on the same plane, etc. These tools can be complicated, and you can go without! But they can help the CAD package efficiently solve the very complex problem of making the 3D object. Without them, things can be very weird, because, you know, maths.

Someone has come into the group with just such a weird problem in a quite complex design. They aren’t at all ungrateful (the opposite!) and the design is beautiful so they must be bright, but when I pick through it to understand the problem I am struck by the way they have avoided using these tools. 

It’s understandable to avoid them as they can be confusing and time-consuming at first, and I can’t be sure that using them will fix the problem they are experiencing, though I suspect it will. I can’t know for sure that they don’t know the value of what they aren’t doing, but I find it surprising they’ve got that far without them.

But my greater feeling is that if they were engaging with these tools, they would likely have some insights into how to how to solve their problem. I want to say “you should really consider going back to basics a little here!”

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Unfocussed Mike said, 1731511085

It might be obvious that this post is kinda-sorta about adult education in creative/hobby contexts. So if you do that in an organised way, I'd love to hear about it.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Gothic Image said, 1731513576

I think I'm a "rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools" type of person, but how much I wing it is entirely dependent on the situation. 

Gothic Image said, 1731513719

... but you need to know the rules to know when you're breaking them?

Theta Aeterna said, 1731514770

I am used to improvise, learn from my experiments and create new methods. I am also used to change those methods over time and even modify methods for other people I educate (day job). All my hobbies or other adventures have my customised imprint and I love it.

Whatever works, works, whatever heals is medicine.

Brian Lewicki said, 1731515260

Gothic Image

All of a sudden my whole ethos to life was explained in a sentence LOL, I suppose “wing it” could apply equally .

Edited by Brian Lewicki

Unfocussed Mike said, 1731520431

Gothic Image said

... but you need to know the rules to know when you're breaking them?

Right. I mean... in some topics I think sometimes you just need to know that some rules exist that are governing aspects you're avoiding, and that might be enough to navigate uncertainty sometimes, or at least help identify the moment where you have to go back to basics for a bit. In the TL;DR back-story example I feel the person in question was probably missing the "why" of that.

Many years ago a company I worked for put into production a bit of software that subsequently had a catastrophic failure, and it turns out that a test/check harness had failed.

The developer in question said "oh yeah, that test failed and I don't know why, but it didn't seem to matter so I ignored it", which kicked off a pretty spirited discussion about exactly what the biggest problem was with this decision. Was it:

1) that the test failed full stop, and the developer should have addressed it as a matter of principle, 
2) the developer didn't explore why the test had failed, or
3) that they didn't care (e.g. didn't bother mentioning it) 

People you asked had really different opinions on which was most significant, all for very good reasons. I personally vote two on this one, but aspect three was what got them the warning.

I am not a recipe-follower, by nature. I am I think a recipe-analyser; I think the most interesting information in a recipe is implied information. So I am not the sort of person to fall for the Swedish Lemon Angels trick. But in the kitchen I think recipe-followers and people who wing it are possibly getting more out of it.

Musically speaking I am absolutely not a sheet-reader; that's the bit I hated as a kid. But I now play an instrument pretty well that almost nobody else plays, and I wouldn't if I'd sought out an orthodox approach to that instrument, because no such orthodoxy exists.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Gothic Image said, 1731527037

I think that (1) and (3) in that example are pretty well the same thing. (1) is that they didn't do it and (3) is why they didn't.

waist.it said, 1731528865

Gothic Image said

I think I'm a "rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools" type of person, but how much I wing it is entirely dependent on the situation. 


Me too. Plan ahead when I can, follow the rules as far as practicable, wing-it when all-else fails. :-)

Perception said, 1731530856

As a 3d cad guy, digital sculptor - automotive body highlighting etc, we do work to a strong method, a set of guidelines . There is actually no need to follow those guidelines to create a model, it just massively builds your own logic of very complex surfaces, it builds a kind of “logic map” , like this surface crashes into that surface and the intersect of those two surfaces is important to me, even though it’s not a detail that willnot still be alive in the final model.

Also when things get crazy complex, often 8 of the companies best car guys will be round a screen trying to figure out how the hell to finish a 3d detail off, going back a few stages in the process and turning things back so simple primitive shapes etc helps hugely.

However there are some talented guys in the industry who just surface a car body like they where sculpting clay, pushing pulling , completely skipping the hours of methodically creating a simple model and then layering over more and more complex surfaces on top.

Annoyingly they often capture a kind of beauty and organic quality that is incredibly hard to copy methodically. A trade off is though they are worse on the perfect resolution of details, interface conditions etc and when tooling suppliers try to build pressing tools from those models it can cause issues etc.

We’ve a term for certain surfaces modelled really dirty but create a shape otherwise very hard to resolve - Rambo patches. Also nobody can work on that model again as it was built unconventionally.

Michael_990 said, 1731532375

I strive to master the technique to the max - up to the point where I don't have to think about that technique anymore - it turns into instinct driven action.

From that point on I am free to work only on the image itself, the underlying technique is no concern anymore.

Teaching forces me to boil down what I do to the core principle,
and while condensing this, I need to argue WHY stuff is done the
way it is done.

Yes, while arguing it happens that arguments for a different approach are found.
Teaching often makes you better in what you do

Theta Aeterna said, 1731534791

Michael_990 said

I strive to master the technique to the max - up to the point where I don't have to think about that technique anymore - it turns into instinct driven action.

From that point on I am free to work only on the image itself, the underlying technique is no concern anymore.

Teaching forces me to boil down what I do to the core principle,
and while condensing this, I need to argue WHY stuff is done the
way it is done.

Yes, while arguing it happens that arguments for a different approach are found.
Teaching often makes you better in what you do


I agree. This was for me with drumming. Once I started to Instruct, I could pinpoint my own mistakes and shortcomings easily, discussing within myself why one technique was better, more refined or more efficient etc. I think the goal is to reach flow-state by dialling your method to perfection to release your mind from the burden of control.  

Huw said, 1731535710

Work iis very tightly planned and executed, with the Government inspecting at 3 year intervals, and able to check anything done 20 years ago. 100%. accuracy is expected.

Photography….    Master the techniques, then act instinctively without conscious thought. Zen.

MidgePhoto said, 1731549510

Unfocussed Mike said

...

People you asked had really different opinions on which was most significant, ...


4) what else they didn't do, elsewhere and at other times.

Feel The Passion said, 1732019579

I point my camera at the subject.

I press the shutter release.

I like the image or I don't.

RobertP said, 1732027472

Step 1. Learn enough to get the job done 

Step 2. Learn enough to write the book 

Step 3. Break it all up into sensible pieces. Turn those pieces into repeatable processes 

Sadly, affordable 3d printers haven’t achieved enough reliability for me to use them without becoming an expert. Also, YouTube is chock full of poorly presented information.