Deposit resolution

Stu H said

Well done.

There are some on here that will bemoan you for doing this; they'll see £40 a trivial amount and not worth the trouble.

But ...

Up until you came along, scamming customers may have been a lucrative, no effort business for them ... so absolutely well done.

Whether £40 is worth the time or not is up to people to decide for themselves. The only time I've used this process I sent the completed forms to the person who owed me the money and that was enough to get them to pay. If you care enough about the money the process isn't hard at all. 

Changing the price after the booking has been made says "scam merchant" and never returning deposits... there's a big difference between that and only returning them in very limited circumstances. The odds are this wasn't a first attempt and either past victims have paid the increased price of the shoot, or let their deposit go. 

gm7.photography said

I get the principle. But ruining someone's credit score (especially someone like self-employed like a model, many of whom struggle financially) for six years over £40 comes across as extraordinarily petty and vindictive to me. I hope you're proud of yourself.

Same for all the photographers piling in. I despair of the mentality here. Then you're all posting threads about how models don't respond to your castings.

Well... You know how some sex offenders use "Photographer" in their M.O.? Some con artists use "Model" in theirs.  I suspect real models have about as much sympathy for this one as you or I have for a bloke who uses as a camera to set up situations where he can grope models. 

There's also a rule that if you're dishonest you shouldn't also be stupid. Don't give people you're stealing from your real name and address. If court papers drop through the letter box, either defend yourself or settle out of court to save the court cost; ignoring them as she did just means the judgement will automatically go against you and then you need to discharge the judgement PDQ to protect your credit rating; it is not the court telling you to pay another party - unless there is a stack of those - but a delay in paying that does the harm. 

I very much doubt that any model worth booking sees it as any more than a con-artist getting what they deserve.

Unfocussed Mike said

Danny. said

What will you spend the extra 18p on?

That’s what came to mind when I saw the 18p! You used to get a decent stash of tooth pullers for around 20p! 

Simon Pole said

Well done, what a load of hassle for £40, I'd chase it too, though, just out of principle, also now, if you do it again, hopefully not, at least you will be able to say, I took the last one to knock me for a deposit to court and they lost, so I'd advise you to return my deposit, it will save us both a load of hassle! 

I have a copy of a CCJ I obtained against a model who no showed and kept the deposit, many years ago. It's come in handy a couple of times since.

The aforementioned model turned very nasty when I had the temerity to leave her a negative reference and ask for my money back. I did go a bit scorched earth in response. As far as I'm aware, she never modelled again. I think she assumed that the threat of being outed as a photographer who shot nudes would make me reluctant to pursue it. If so, she assumed wrong.  

gm7.photography said

I get the principle. But ruining someone's credit score (especially someone like self-employed like a model, many of whom struggle financially) for six years over £40 comes across as extraordinarily petty and vindictive to me. I hope you're proud of yourself.

Same for all the photographers piling in. I despair of the mentality here. Then you're all posting threads about how models don't respond to your castings.

I simply do not condone anyone who breaks the law.

What you appear to be ignoring, is that had she responded to the court and paid what the judge said she should have, or even repaid the deposit as she should have done, then there would not have been a problem.

Transferring blame from the culprit to the victim is a very strange reaction and has blighted justice for a long time.

Doing the right thing isn't always easy, but condoning criminality, however minor you may feel it is, is simply not acceptable to any reasonable person.

gm7.photography said

Unfocussed Mike said

gm7.photography said

It's the smug clipboard and a hi-vis "It's my god given right, aren't I clever" of it that bothers me.

This is unfair and quite rude. I guess people want to respond to the unfairness of it and just let the rudeness go unreported.

I mean, even if it was a literal mistake, the model had only just taken the money, and then varied the terms of the contract, which would void any wording about the deposit being non-refundable even if it was there up front. The money should have been quickly returned with an apology, and then everything would have been fine.

It is, as you say, a silly amount of money to get into difficulty over, and yet that, judging by the detail above, is exactly what the model did.

I've known models have £20 to live on half way through the month. While comfortably retired photographers with £10,000 cameras try to knock their rates down. I'm sure the converse is true.

Point being it's endemic of the armchair lawyer, I'm always in the right attitude of the forums to me (the other thread doing the rounds has so much of the same bile).
I don't post a lot for this reason. But this one annoyed me enough.

Edited by gm7.photography

Really?
This has nothing to do with the facts of the incident.

If you break the law, and she did, then you must be prepared to face the consequences.

The thing that I worry about, is people like you who try and impress models by taking their side regardless of the facts or legality.  

For your information, as you appear to be ignorant of the relevent law,  once a contract is agreed, the terms cannot legally be changed unilaterally.  If one party wants to change the terms, they must have the agreement of the other parties involved.
e.g. Had the model concerned explained her problem to me and offered to return the deposit, I would probably have considered renegotiating.  

As it was she had told me her rates and I had accepted them.  There was no attempt to knock her fee down at all.

May I suggest that you stick to the facts and not try to construct a fantasy situation to suit your argument?

Holly Alexander said

The view that a lot of models are poor little stupid girls is ridiculous. Most of us are very hard working and clever business women

Edited by Holly Alexander

This is so true!

Of the hundreds of models I've worked with, not a single one has been stupid.

The vast majority have been hard working, clever and professional.

Just for clarity, I did leave the model a negative reference.

I also asked the site's admin to remove the negative reference that the model left me, claiming she had paid a deposit and I refused to return it.  After quickly investigating, admin did remove it.

gm7.photography said

I get the principle. But ruining someone's credit score (especially someone like self-employed like a model, many of whom struggle financially) for six years over £40 comes across as extraordinarily petty and vindictive to me. I hope you're proud of yourself.

Same for all the photographers piling in. I despair of the mentality here. Then you're all posting threads about how models don't respond to your castings.

Seems a tiny bit sexist.

Would you rush to defend a big ugly male struggling window cleaner who said he had miscalculated, raised his price by £100, and refused to return your deposit?

Orson Carter said

ThePictureCompany said

I only have one problem with deposits and I’ve asked this question before but never had a proper reply.

If I book a model and studio, with cancelation fees then, for example, the model is ill on the day, everything gets cancelled. The studio turn around and say, you owe us 100% payment because you cancelled. Who pays that ?

FWIW, I had a late cancellation last month (the model had health issues) and she offered to compensate me for the hire of my shoot location. Very kind of her. [I did NOT accept, by the way.]

Thats great but doesn't actually help or answer the question.

ThePictureCompany said

Orson Carter said

ThePictureCompany said

I only have one problem with deposits and I’ve asked this question before but never had a proper reply.

If I book a model and studio, with cancelation fees then, for example, the model is ill on the day, everything gets cancelled. The studio turn around and say, you owe us 100% payment because you cancelled. Who pays that ?

FWIW, I had a late cancellation last month (the model had health issues) and she offered to compensate me for the hire of my shoot location. Very kind of her. [I did NOT accept, by the way.]

Thats great but doesn't actually help or answer the question.

You do, the model is not a party to the contract between you and the studio. Contract Law 101.

If you were a commercial photographer you'd be familiar with consequential loss insurance, which might cover your losses in those circumstances. But, as an amateur, it's unlikely that you would have considered [or been aware of] such cover.

Edited by FiL