Are Games Killing Groups?

indemnity said

I turned the shout gizmo off years ago because that was being a PIA.

I deem the shout box to be Write-Only Memory.  No-one ever reads it, or looks at what's been posted, much less interacts with it.

ANDY00 said

Gothic Image said

ANDY00 said

Look, I get the historical and technological references you're making, but they're missing a key point. Forums—whether online or in ancient times—are about conversation, not just about repeating information that’s already available. Sure, we have indexed information and search functions, but forums are for engagement. People don't just come here to be fed facts; they come for discussion, new perspectives, and to connect with others.

It’s human nature to revisit topics and bring fresh eyes to them. Yes, we’ve all seen questions pop up that have been asked before, but that doesn’t mean they don’t deserve a new conversation. And by the way, people don't visit forums just to 'search the archives.' They come to interact. To say a conversation should stop because the information has already been said is to deny the purpose of the forum itself.

Also, every time someone brings up a topic, even if it’s an old one, new voices, experiences, and insights can lead to entirely different discussions. That’s something no FAQ page or indexed knowledge base can replace. The fact that humans have organized information in libraries or online databases hasn’t stopped people from discussing those topics—it enriches the conversation.

So no, the point isn't to silence discussions just because 'it’s been asked before.' Conversations aren’t just about finding answers; they’re about interaction, perspective, and learning. That’s the whole point of a forum.

For everything else they gave us a scroll button and a choice......

Edited by ANDY00

And here we are, interacting!

It is indeed helpful to get new perspectives on things from fresh pairs of eyes.  But most of the time we don't - we get people asking a question that's been asked before when the answers were already out there if they looked.

That’s exactly the point behind fresh eyes and broader conversation—people have different views and perspectives, not just yours. If it’s not a conversation you’re interested in, simply scroll past instead of trying to shut it down like you’re doing here. :-) That’s the whole point of a forum: conversation and debate. You won’t find that in an FAQ or in responses like, 'That’s been asked before.' If that’s your approach, why are you on a forum? Clearly, you’re not interested in a discussion, just your own blunt, short opinion. :-) imo

Didn't we have a discussion previously about assumptions? I'll leave it there.

Edited by Gothic Image

Gothic Image said

ANDY00 said

Gothic Image said

ANDY00 said

Look, I get the historical and technological references you're making, but they're missing a key point. Forums—whether online or in ancient times—are about conversation, not just about repeating information that’s already available. Sure, we have indexed information and search functions, but forums are for engagement. People don't just come here to be fed facts; they come for discussion, new perspectives, and to connect with others.

It’s human nature to revisit topics and bring fresh eyes to them. Yes, we’ve all seen questions pop up that have been asked before, but that doesn’t mean they don’t deserve a new conversation. And by the way, people don't visit forums just to 'search the archives.' They come to interact. To say a conversation should stop because the information has already been said is to deny the purpose of the forum itself.

Also, every time someone brings up a topic, even if it’s an old one, new voices, experiences, and insights can lead to entirely different discussions. That’s something no FAQ page or indexed knowledge base can replace. The fact that humans have organized information in libraries or online databases hasn’t stopped people from discussing those topics—it enriches the conversation.

So no, the point isn't to silence discussions just because 'it’s been asked before.' Conversations aren’t just about finding answers; they’re about interaction, perspective, and learning. That’s the whole point of a forum.

For everything else they gave us a scroll button and a choice......

Edited by ANDY00

And here we are, interacting!

It is indeed helpful to get new perspectives on things from fresh pairs of eyes.  But most of the time we don't - we get people asking a question that's been asked before when the answers were already out there if they looked.

That’s exactly the point behind fresh eyes and broader conversation—people have different views and perspectives, not just yours. If it’s not a conversation you’re interested in, simply scroll past instead of trying to shut it down like you’re doing here. :-) That’s the whole point of a forum: conversation and debate. You won’t find that in an FAQ or in responses like, 'That’s been asked before.' If that’s your approach, why are you on a forum? Clearly, you’re not interested in a discussion, just your own blunt, short opinion. :-) imo

Didn't we have a discussion previously about assumptions? :-)

We're discussing now, and I'm assuming nothing. I'm simply responding to what you said. Quote: Gothic Image said, 'We get people asking a question that's been asked before when the answers were already out there if they looked.' Not an assumption—those are your own words.

If, on the other hand, you're suggesting people post on the forum NOT for discussion, then I would ask—what are they posting for? To be ignored? Where’s the assumption in that?

Forums are for discussing anything. The scroll button is there to help you move past topics that don’t interest you. It really is that simple. But no, some people here seem to thrive on shutting down a conversation before it even starts because it isn’t their conversation. Shame, really.

I freely admit i like a good conversation :-)

Edited by ANDY00

indemnity I am getting to where you are.

No one wants to get into image critique in a photography website where we are supposed to be sharing among peers

•  I will INVITE CRITIQUE  and no one responds.
• If any of us dare 'GIVE CRITIQUE' we are DINGED by Admins - and told to 'SHUT THE F*** UP'

What is the point of photography website - where

• Spirited discussions around images are not allowed or entertained
• Most contests are ignored by the best shooters
• FPI is a 'Repeat' affair for the people in the 'High Popularity' list and Repeats the same 'Studio Themed' or 'Highly Photoshopped' - POSED images with no originality

I am 2 months away from leaving. If I don't see a major improvement by December....

I will leave the nymphs to their 'Games' - ClickMore 📷 ;)

Danger-Shan said

indemnity I am getting to where you are.

No one wants to get into image critique in a photography website where we are supposed to be sharing among peers

•  I will INVITE CRITIQUE  and no one responds.
• If any of us dare 'GIVE CRITIQUE' we are DINGED by Admins - and told to 'SHUT THE F*** UP'

What is the point of photography website - where

• Spirited discussions around images are not allowed or entertained
• Most contests are ignored by the best shooters
• FPI is a 'Repeat' affair for the people in the 'High Popularity' list and Repeats the same 'Studio Themed' or 'Highly Photoshopped' - POSED images with no originality

I am 2 months away from leaving. If I don't see a major improvement by December....

I will leave the nymphs to their 'Games' - ClickMore 📷 ;)

 Panic... ;) :) 

Sensual Art actually don't mind them. When I participate I think I find something interesting in a person's port and interact accordingly. I think the issues with games here is that many people are only interested in their voice and that affects groups as a whole*

*I'm skim reading this post at work so apologies if I veer off topic etc. I think my last post did quite a bit.

The games are mildly entertaining.  Those who find that too mild are at liberty to make one which entertains them, and perhaps others, more.

A virtuous activity in itself.

As for "discussions", there was school for things which are and should be known, libraries for things which should be lookable up, and history for what has already been done.

Much remains.

Our transatlantic cousins have divided themselves or been divided by their enemies into what their insurrectionist tendency disparaged as "the fact-based community" and the others.

They like to have "discussions".

MidgePhoto said

The games are mildly entertaining.  Those who find that too mild are at liberty to make one which entertains them, and perhaps others, more.

A virtuous activity in itself.

As for "discussions", there was school for things which are and should be known, libraries for things which should be lookable up, and history for what has already been done.

Much remains.

Our transatlantic cousins have divided themselves or been divided by their enemies into what their insurrectionist tendency disparaged as "the fact-based community" and the others.

They like to have "discussions".

Keep to Topic please.

Sensual Art said

Tarmoo said

Seeing as the "post the best ... from the previous poster" type games are so unpopular, maybe these can be moved to a different forum and leave the rest in the current games forum.

There are various reasons why these are unpopular including ...

1. People spamming these groups by replying too frequently - seems like too much attention seeking
2. People posting to a group where they have no suitable photos for the next poster to select (e.g. select the best b/w from the previous poster when they have none themselves)
3. People whose portfolios you would rather avoid replying to these groups

I disagree firmly that the "post the best from the previous poster" games are at all unpopular.  It's just that the "post your own" require so much less investment and allow someone to post their latest BLBP with no repercussions.  This has the net effect of drowning out the "best from the previous" types of games - effectively spamming the Games group with their write-only medium.

And yes, it's basically write-only, as I said earlier, because there is almost zero interaction between people in those posts.  On the rare occasions I've contributed to them, I've a) almost never had any feedback such as a Love, and b) almost never seen any of their self-selected pictures that I've wanted to Love (though when I do see something good on the last page or two, I'll love it, and possibly invite it to one or more of the image groups that I manage).

I said it on page 1, but I'll say it again: those "post your own image" posts are basically the shoutbox by another name.

Separating the two different categories would be of benefit.

Incidentally:

Tarmoo said

...People whose portfolios you would rather avoid replying to these groups

Other than people who've blocked you so you can't look, and without getting too specific, what kinds of categories do those people fall under for you?

I think that most people reply to threads they see in "Recent Group Discussions". Of the 45 forum topics I see now there are 27 games threads, so the most prolific forum group on PP. If would not matter if the games forum was split into two as most people don't look for topics in the games forum, but reply to a thread they see in Recent Discussions.

I do get quite a few views from posts to games threads, especially the ones for 1000+, 200+, 300+, 400+ views etc. These threads are quite interesting to see as it shows which photos and photographers are most popular on here. I haven't noticed a "Post your BLBP photo here" games thread, however there is a Lets see those bums games group.

I used to participate quite often the the "Your favourite photo from the previous posters port" thread, but got bored with it as the same people were frequently replying and some of their portfolios I had seen already and were not keen to see again.

I used to browse the "games" threads but stopped looking some time ago when I got irritated by certain members repeatedly posting the same image on the same thread.

I'd suggest the biggest improvement to these threads would be to limit images to one appearance per game thread (if that can be done?).

ClickMore 📷 said

Something I am guilty of is posting photos in Games within groups, probably too often.

The Games used to be mainly posting a photo from someone else. Now it is just posting one of your own images along a theme.

When you see the Groups Widget down the left side of the home page sometimes it is just full of posts in these games. Just wondering if these Games are killing discussion in the rest of the Groups. I am not on one side or the other but it would be interesting to find out opinions.

Should the "Post Your Own" games be closed to enable the more interactive games involving visits to other members more popular?

Or do we let Groups in other sections continue to stagnate?

...

Always risky asking me to stick to a target, the adhesion may be comprehensive.  Going back to the OP, and in order:

There's Betteridge's Law of Headlines: If the headline asks a question, "no" is usually the adequate answer.

You do you. Or less.

Does anyone recall which the first games were?  Are they still here?  They would be easy to revive, if they are still present.

The game of posting an image, of one's own, which fits a theme is one of the most obvious of photographic games, played in clubs and assorted online systems for a time possibly nearly as long as photography.

Flickr.com started in 2006 and I see I joined it the following year. There were definitely groups there doing that.

What photo.net had been up to I'm not sure, never having haunted it.

The Groups widget now has 15 items on my screen.  7 are Games. The highest is 4th in the list.  It solicits an own shot, the next solicits the best by the[1] previous poster.  It hasn't killed the groups today.

A change made to the supporting mechanism of Games a while ago was to add the facility to the grey cog to display the answers one had previously made.  (does it display other people's images one has posted?) That seems to have been a convenience for us.  Other changes might be proposed, with small incremental advantages.

At the bottom of the widget is a button to show favourite groups.  That's the user's favourite groups.  I see I have 13. Games is not one of them.

If Games was multiple groups then it would occupy more space in that list, and thus go from, say, 1 in 13 to be 2 in 13. If Games isn't among your favourites, then it won't be taking up a space there.  Causing people who have favoured it to have it in two spaces seems a step retrograde to the apparent thesis of the original post  - I mean it is a bad idea in current context.

The OP moves from wondering if discussion is killed in the Groups other than Games (which account for as I counted above, more than half of the entries on the widget, here) conclusion, they are not; additional note: discussion is unusual in Games.

... to declaring that they are stagnating and proposing a solution.  That's a logical failure and rhetorical tactic wrapped up as one.  It also seems to veer between the two sorts of Games defined and the whole of the rest of the discussion groups or forums.  The proposition could be more closely defined.

So the answer to the actual question proposed : "Should the "Post Your Own" games be closed to enable the more interactive games involving visits to other members more popular? " I'd offer is that if they were the more popular part of either games or Groups as a whole, it would seem a very odd step for a company or community to take to close them down. As well propose to close the less popular other elements.  "Stop playing your game, and play mine!"

Fortunately, as Wikipedia has it, this isn't paper, so whatever popularity is and however it persists in one user or users as a whole without alteration as time passes, there's no obvious need to do anything.  That's not the same as an obvious need to do nothing, but as far as the rules of games go, that's what I suggest doing.  Nothing.  (Within those rules, see footnote)

[1] There is a failure or boredom mode referred to in a post earlier. There is no obvious reason why the rubric of a Game should use the definite rather than indefinite article, nor why it should not set a scope.  IE "Post a  picture of more than average interest by a previous poster among the last 5"  Or "on this page" which might add a periodicity and occasional rush to posting.

Edited by MidgePhoto

To be honest I don't get involved in the Games section.

MidgePhoto Unfortunately not keeping to topic stops threads from continuing or members contributing. Thanks for your last post.

The great thing about this site is that you can customise so much of your experience. When I log on to the home page it is almost completely blank because I have turned off all the widgets. When I go into the Groups I only see General Chat, Copyright Issues and Photographers Chat because they are all I'm interested in. I skip the threads I'm not interested in, I abandon the ones that go buck daft, and I block idiots so that I don't have to read their inane dreck. If something is spoiling your enjoyment - ignore it, abandon it or block it. Or maybe start your own threads with your own neatly defined rules and hope that people stick to them. 

Whilst Games certainly dominate the Groups, I'm not sure that culling or otherwise changing them would necessarily encourage discussions in the other Groups.  Perhaps an alternative question would be to ask what could be done to enliven those other Groups?