Are Games Killing Groups?

ANDY00 said

MidgePhoto said

ANDY00 said

...

See, I would say if a topic comes up often, it deserves a conversation. I’d also say if a conversation doesn’t interest someone, they can just scroll past it. But apparently, that’s too difficult for some :-D

A conversation without a purpose, perhaps.

Yesterday's football game between two particular teams.

A set of statements which annoy people about how photographers or models should conduct their activity, the purpose of this site, with the at least implicit purpose of altering the consensus, Overton Window or justifying some peculiarity is worth starting from the existing state, how we got here, and with a summary of what has been done before.

Otherwise it degenerates quickly into annoyance and repeated efforts resemble Einstein's* definition of insanity .

An example is this one https://purpleport.com/articles/1033/photographers-pictures-in-their-profile-/

* A Physicist, who described important aspects of the fundamental structure of the universe, how to blow up cities and make electricity, and an interesting refrigerator with no moving parts which people think they understand, and usually don't.

Someone walks into a shop and asks, 'How much is that product?' The clerk answers, '£10.' The next day, another person comes in and asks the same question, and the clerk responds, '£10' again. This repeats forever, and not once does the clerk say, 'This has been asked so many times.' Why? Because the clerk values the person’s question, understands it has a purpose for them and is part of the reason for their job. also It’s polite to respond.

That's not really a valid analogy though, is it?  I'm with Midge on this, although I'd admit that a better search engine in the groups would help!

I just hide the ones I don't want to see, it takes a second and I never see them again, I don't want to hide all games, just the ones I'm not interested in. 

ANDY00 said

MidgePhoto said

ANDY00 said

...

See, I would say if a topic comes up often,...

* A Physicist, who described important aspects of the fundamental structure of the universe, how to blow up cities and make electricity, and an interesting refrigerator with no moving parts which people think they understand, and usually don't.

Someone walks into a shop and asks, 'How much is that product?' The clerk answers, '£10.' The next day, another person comes in and asks the same question, and the clerk responds, '£10' again. This repeats forever, and not once does the clerk say, 'This has been asked so many times.' Why? Because the clerk values the person’s question, understands it has a purpose for them and is part of the reason for their job. also It’s polite to respond. A forum’s purpose is to converse, so why do many delight in shutting down discussions just because they’ve happened before? New people in a conversation bring different results—it's better than just 'kill thread, kill thread. imo

Some time between the 17th and the 20th century shops started writing price tickets or invitations to tender on their shelves and products. 

So that the FAQ of how much an item was offered for need not be asked.

The similarity would be more like a potential customer walking in and telling the clerk that the item clearly labelled £30 should actually be free, since the customer had already shopped in several other shops.

Some time around Homer, and then later before the establishment of the Library at Alexandria, people started writing down, and then organising, indexing and making conveniently available, the stories, answers to questions, descriptions of the world, assorted how to documents, and so on, so that it was no longer necessary to ask the same question over and over, nor to repeat the work of responding to assertions which had received competent thought previously.

Tim Berners-Lee wrote the World Wide Web with a first specific use case of managing the CERN telephone directory, an unusually difficult document to maintain and an immediate and impressive success.  But before that he had attempted the general task with a program called "Enquire Within", itself named after a Victorian book, "Enquire WIthin about Everything".  (I suppose William Gibson's "A Young Lady's Primer" set in the DIamond Age of a new Victorian society has a hint of both, as well as being a deus ex machina and a good story.)

And here we are on the Web.

Gothic Image said

...

That's not really a valid analogy though, is it?  I'm with Midge on this, although I'd admit that a better search engine in the groups would help!

A search engine is one aspect, but that is a research tool, and after the research comes the passage through a human intelligence, the curation or one part of the librarian function, which is not adequately replaced by machinawry. 

ClickMore 📷 personally like the games.

Actually more inclined to post on them over the conversations that take place on other posts.

The groups are dominated by the same people especially when certain topics come up. With people valuing their opinion so much that they've said things that... Are either not true or just shitty. So I'd rather post my pretty pictures to be honest.

I've found it interesting how some models opinions and points have been flatly dismissed by some regulars. Making it it feel that the lack of model input is by design.

So yeah. Pretty pictures in games serve me best.

MidgePhoto said

ANDY00 said

MidgePhoto said

ANDY00 said

...

See, I would say if a topic comes up often,...

* A Physicist, who described important aspects of the fundamental structure of the universe, how to blow up cities and make electricity, and an interesting refrigerator with no moving parts which people think they understand, and usually don't.

Someone walks into a shop and asks, 'How much is that product?' The clerk answers, '£10.' The next day, another person comes in and asks the same question, and the clerk responds, '£10' again. This repeats forever, and not once does the clerk say, 'This has been asked so many times.' Why? Because the clerk values the person’s question, understands it has a purpose for them and is part of the reason for their job. also It’s polite to respond. A forum’s purpose is to converse, so why do many delight in shutting down discussions just because they’ve happened before? New people in a conversation bring different results—it's better than just 'kill thread, kill thread. imo

Some time between the 17th and the 20th century shops started writing price tickets or invitations to tender on their shelves and products. 

So that the FAQ of how much an item was offered for need not be asked.

The similarity would be more like a potential customer walking in and telling the clerk that the item clearly labelled £30 should actually be free, since the customer had already shopped in several other shops.

Some time around Homer, and then later before the establishment of the Library at Alexandria, people started writing down, and then organising, indexing and making conveniently available, the stories, answers to questions, descriptions of the world, assorted how to documents, and so on, so that it was no longer necessary to ask the same question over and over, nor to repeat the work of responding to assertions which had received competent thought previously.

Tim Berners-Lee wrote the World Wide Web with a first specific use case of managing the CERN telephone directory, an unusually difficult document to maintain and an immediate and impressive success.  But before that he had attempted the general task with a program called "Enquire Within", itself named after a Victorian book, "Enquire WIthin about Everything".  (I suppose William Gibson's "A Young Lady's Primer" set in the DIamond Age of a new Victorian society has a hint of both, as well as being a deus ex machina and a good story.)

And here we are on the Web.

Look, I get the historical and technological references you're making, but they're missing a key point. Forums—whether online or in ancient times—are about conversation, not just about repeating information that’s already available. Sure, we have indexed information and search functions, but forums are for engagement. People don't just come here to be fed facts; they come for discussion, new perspectives, and to connect with others.

It’s human nature to revisit topics and bring fresh eyes to them. Yes, we’ve all seen questions pop up that have been asked before, but that doesn’t mean they don’t deserve a new conversation. And by the way, people don't visit forums just to 'search the archives.' They come to interact. To say a conversation should stop because the information has already been said is to deny the purpose of the forum itself.

Also, every time someone brings up a topic, even if it’s an old one, new voices, experiences, and insights can lead to entirely different discussions. That’s something no FAQ page or indexed knowledge base can replace. The fact that humans have organized information in libraries or online databases hasn’t stopped people from discussing those topics—it enriches the conversation.

So no, the point isn't to silence discussions just because 'it’s been asked before.' Conversations aren’t just about finding answers; they’re about interaction, perspective, and learning. That’s the whole point of a forum.

For everything else they gave us a scroll button and a choice......

Edited by ANDY00

Simon Pole said

I just hide the ones I don't want to see, it takes a second and I never see them again, I don't want to hide all games, just the ones I'm not interested in. 

How would you categorise the ones you're interested in vs the ones you're not?

MidgePhoto said

The similarity would be more like a potential customer walking in and telling the clerk that the item clearly labelled £30 should actually be free, since the customer had already shopped in several other shops.

Or perhaps that the customer asks the price without bothering to look at the price label first?

Simple answer. No.

If the games that are getting created and participated in aren't ones you or I or anyone else likes then we can start other or drop out of the games group completely but the other groups go on as normal. If we're out of sync with what's [currently] popular in games we have little choice but to shrug and move on. 

ANDY00 said

Look, I get the historical and technological references you're making, but they're missing a key point. Forums—whether online or in ancient times—are about conversation, not just about repeating information that’s already available. Sure, we have indexed information and search functions, but forums are for engagement. People don't just come here to be fed facts; they come for discussion, new perspectives, and to connect with others.

It’s human nature to revisit topics and bring fresh eyes to them. Yes, we’ve all seen questions pop up that have been asked before, but that doesn’t mean they don’t deserve a new conversation. And by the way, people don't visit forums just to 'search the archives.' They come to interact. To say a conversation should stop because the information has already been said is to deny the purpose of the forum itself.

Also, every time someone brings up a topic, even if it’s an old one, new voices, experiences, and insights can lead to entirely different discussions. That’s something no FAQ page or indexed knowledge base can replace. The fact that humans have organized information in libraries or online databases hasn’t stopped people from discussing those topics—it enriches the conversation.

So no, the point isn't to silence discussions just because 'it’s been asked before.' Conversations aren’t just about finding answers; they’re about interaction, perspective, and learning. That’s the whole point of a forum.

For everything else they gave us a scroll button and a choice......

Edited by ANDY00

And here we are, interacting!

It is indeed helpful to get new perspectives on things from fresh pairs of eyes.  But most of the time we don't - we get people asking a question that's been asked before when the answers were already out there if they looked.

Gothic Image said

MidgePhoto said

The similarity would be more like a potential customer walking in and telling the clerk that the item clearly labelled £30 should actually be free, since the customer had already shopped in several other shops.

Or perhaps that the customer asks the price without bothering to look at the price label first?

The point isn’t about the label; some people just want to talk, ask questions, and speak to a real person. These days, you call a GP, you get a robot. You call the phone company, you get a robot. You go to a supermarket, and you're directed to self-service checkouts. People go to small shops because they want to interact with real people. Similarly, people come to forums for conversation and debate—that’s the point of a public forum, after all.

Over the years, there’s been less and less complimentary interaction on sites like this—less conversation, fewer likes, and fewer comments. If we completely kill the need for conversation on the forum, how much will that damage other interactions on the site?

Tarmoo said

Seeing as the "post the best ... from the previous poster" type games are so unpopular, maybe these can be moved to a different forum and leave the rest in the current games forum.

There are various reasons why these are unpopular including ...

1. People spamming these groups by replying too frequently - seems like too much attention seeking
2. People posting to a group where they have no suitable photos for the next poster to select (e.g. select the best b/w from the previous poster when they have none themselves)
3. People whose portfolios you would rather avoid replying to these groups

I disagree firmly that the "post the best from the previous poster" games are at all unpopular.  It's just that the "post your own" require so much less investment and allow someone to post their latest BLBP with no repercussions.  This has the net effect of drowning out the "best from the previous" types of games - effectively spamming the Games group with their write-only medium.

And yes, it's basically write-only, as I said earlier, because there is almost zero interaction between people in those posts.  On the rare occasions I've contributed to them, I've a) almost never had any feedback such as a Love, and b) almost never seen any of their self-selected pictures that I've wanted to Love (though when I do see something good on the last page or two, I'll love it, and possibly invite it to one or more of the image groups that I manage).

I said it on page 1, but I'll say it again: those "post your own image" posts are basically the shoutbox by another name.

Separating the two different categories would be of benefit.

Incidentally:

Tarmoo said

...People whose portfolios you would rather avoid replying to these groups

Other than people who've blocked you so you can't look, and without getting too specific, what kinds of categories do those people fall under for you?

Going back to the Games aspect, I occasionally post my own images to relevant topics but I also go back through the last page or so, commenting or loving as appropriate, sometimes even suggesting for FPIs.  I prefer a targetted approach rather than wading through recent images.

Afrofilmviewer said

ClickMore 📷 personally like the games.

Actually more inclined to post on them over the conversations that take place on other posts.

The groups are dominated by the same people especially when certain topics come up. With people valuing their opinion so much that they've said things that... Are either not true or just shitty. So I'd rather post my pretty pictures to be honest.

I've found it interesting how some models opinions and points have been flatly dismissed by some regulars. Making it it feel that the lack of model input is by design.

So yeah. Pretty pictures in games serve me best.

What about the posts where you're invited to go and look at someone else's portfolio and pick out their best picture on some theme?

Would you rate those above or below posting your own pictures, in terms of how it makes you feel?

Gothic Image said

ANDY00 said

Look, I get the historical and technological references you're making, but they're missing a key point. Forums—whether online or in ancient times—are about conversation, not just about repeating information that’s already available. Sure, we have indexed information and search functions, but forums are for engagement. People don't just come here to be fed facts; they come for discussion, new perspectives, and to connect with others.

It’s human nature to revisit topics and bring fresh eyes to them. Yes, we’ve all seen questions pop up that have been asked before, but that doesn’t mean they don’t deserve a new conversation. And by the way, people don't visit forums just to 'search the archives.' They come to interact. To say a conversation should stop because the information has already been said is to deny the purpose of the forum itself.

Also, every time someone brings up a topic, even if it’s an old one, new voices, experiences, and insights can lead to entirely different discussions. That’s something no FAQ page or indexed knowledge base can replace. The fact that humans have organized information in libraries or online databases hasn’t stopped people from discussing those topics—it enriches the conversation.

So no, the point isn't to silence discussions just because 'it’s been asked before.' Conversations aren’t just about finding answers; they’re about interaction, perspective, and learning. That’s the whole point of a forum.

For everything else they gave us a scroll button and a choice......

Edited by ANDY00

And here we are, interacting!

It is indeed helpful to get new perspectives on things from fresh pairs of eyes.  But most of the time we don't - we get people asking a question that's been asked before when the answers were already out there if they looked.

That’s exactly the point behind fresh eyes and broader conversation—people have different views and perspectives, not just yours. If it’s not a conversation you’re interested in, simply scroll past instead of trying to shut it down like you’re doing here. :-) That’s the whole point of a forum: conversation and debate. You won’t find that in an FAQ or in responses like, 'That’s been asked before.' If that’s your approach, why are you on a forum? Clearly, you’re not interested in a discussion, just your own blunt, short opinion. :-) imo