Portaflash 336VM

I haven't set eyes on one of those for 20 years... However, if I recall correctly, they have a built in optical slave. Before you waste money on cables, see if they can be triggered with a speedlite...

Good luck... Ron.

Edited by Ron Morris aka The Butterfly Collector

Ron Morris aka The Butterfly Collector said

I haven't set eyes on one of those for 20 years... However, if I recall correctly, they have a built in optical slave. Before you waste money on cables, see if they can be triggered with a speedlite...

Indeed - I had a pair of those many years ago, and used a low-powered on-camera flash with a length of exposed film over it as my trigger.  Worked a treat indoors, but failed miserably when I tried to use it outdoors :')

Old but still working. Am I missing the point on the speed light. Wouldn't that affect the lighting set-up for her or is there a mode where it fires first as a trigger?

sepiashots said

Old but still working. Am I missing the point on the speed light. Wouldn't that affect the lighting set-up for her or is there a mode where it fires first as a trigger?

Just put it on low power and point away from the model?

ok thanks

sepiashots said

Old but still working. Am I missing the point on the speed light. Wouldn't that affect the lighting set-up for her or is there a mode where it fires first as a trigger?

Note my

Sensual Art said

length of exposed film over it

which serves to attenuate the light to the point where it does not affect the resulting picture to any discernible degree, but is bright enough to trigger the 336VMs.

Conflicting evidence! For example the cables here appear to be PC flash to PC flash:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305835714335

But if you look at the back of the unit in photos, that socket is not a PC socket (it wouldn't be anyway, that would fall out).

It looks more like, say, a 3.5mm mini jack socket:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286101133692

A commenter at DPReview says:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/1886894

But the question is what they mean when they say it's smaller than others. That could mean 3.5mm (smaller than a typical vintage 1/4" jack).

And then there's this page, where someone measures their connector and it appears to be smaller than a 3.5mm connector and is likely to be 2.5mm:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/portaflash-studio-system-query.987092/

So you might need a PC to 2.5mm jack cable, which is quite common in short coiled lengths, because some battery flashes use those... but not that common in long, studio-spanning lengths.

Or a long PC to 3.5mm cable and a 3.5mm to 2.5mm barrel adapter.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Sensual Art said

sepiashots said

Old but still working. Am I missing the point on the speed light. Wouldn't that affect the lighting set-up for her or is there a mode where it fires first as a trigger?

Note my

Sensual Art said

length of exposed film over it

which serves to attenuate the light to the point where it does not affect the resulting picture to any discernible degree, but is bright enough to trigger the 336VMs.

Yes thanks

Unfocussed Mike said

Conflicting evidence! For example the cables here appear to be PC flash to PC flash:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305835714335

But if you look at the back of the unit in photos, that socket is not a PC socket (it wouldn't be anyway, that would fall out).

It looks more like, say, a 3.5mm mini jack socket:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286101133692

A commenter at DPReview says:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/1886894

But the question is what they mean when they say it's smaller than others. That could mean 3.5mm (smaller than a typical vintage 1/4" jack).

And then there's this page, where someone measures their connector and it appears to be smaller than a 3.5mm connector and is likely to be 2.5mm:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/portaflash-studio-system-query.987092/

So you might need a PC to 2.5mm jack cable, which is quite common in short coiled lengths, because some battery flashes use those... but not that common in long, studio-spanning lengths.

Or a long PC to 3.5mm cable and a 3.5mm to 2.5mm barrel adapter.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Thanks Mike appreciate your research. Does it matter if I get a 3.5mm and use an adapter which is effectively stereo rather than mono.

Gothic Image said

sepiashots said

Old but still working. Am I missing the point on the speed light. Wouldn't that affect the lighting set-up for her or is there a mode where it fires first as a trigger?

Just put it on low power and point away from the model?

Yes, and no. The problem is that the 336VM will trigger on pre-flashes from the speedlight, because it is *way* too old to know how to ignore them.

Older film TTL flash guns did not fire preflashes because they could meter off the film.

So you'd need to be using a flash gun that can be used in full manual mode without pre-flashes, or be able to disable them.

It is possible to get slave units that do ignore preflashes -- I have one, a Sunpak DSU-01. But that Portaflash is not capable of that.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

I still use 2 portflash 336 for lighting backdrops and backlighting, use them as a slave and fire with speedlight pointing up to ceiling.

Unfocussed Mike said

Gothic Image said

sepiashots said

Old but still working. Am I missing the point on the speed light. Wouldn't that affect the lighting set-up for her or is there a mode where it fires first as a trigger?

Just put it on low power and point away from the model?

Yes, and no. The problem is that the 336VM will trigger on pre-flashes from the speedlight, because it is *way* too old to know how to ignore them.

Older film TTL flash guns did not fire preflashes because they could meter off the film.

So you'd need to be using a flash gun that can be used in full manual mode without pre-flashes, or be able to disable them.

It is possible to get slave units that do ignore preflashes -- I have one, a Sunpak DSU-01. But that Portaflash is not capable of that.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

The Canon speedlights can certainly be used in manual mode without pre-flashes.

sepiashots said

Unfocussed Mike said

Conflicting evidence! For example the cables here appear to be PC flash to PC flash:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305835714335

But if you look at the back of the unit in photos, that socket is not a PC socket (it wouldn't be anyway, that would fall out).

It looks more like, say, a 3.5mm mini jack socket:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286101133692

A commenter at DPReview says:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/1886894

But the question is what they mean when they say it's smaller than others. That could mean 3.5mm (smaller than a typical vintage 1/4" jack).

And then there's this page, where someone measures their connector and it appears to be smaller than a 3.5mm connector and is likely to be 2.5mm:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/portaflash-studio-system-query.987092/

So you might need a PC to 2.5mm jack cable, which is quite common in short coiled lengths, because some battery flashes use those... but not that common in long, studio-spanning lengths.

Or a long PC to 3.5mm cable and a 3.5mm to 2.5mm barrel adapter.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Thanks Mike appreciate your research. Does it matter if I get a 3.5mm and use an adapter which is effectively stereo rather than mono.

Not sure. Obviously in the audio world, stereo jacks were designed to work in mono sockets. But exactly whether that Portaflash would have a difficult connector I don't know. I'd try a mono jack adapter if you go that route:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mono-2-5mm-3-5mm-Socket-Adapter/dp/B000LAUXPG/ 

There is one remaining concern here, which is trigger voltage!

I really don't know about whether it is safe to use the 336VM with a modern camera.

My guess would be, yes, Jessops specified this unit with a low trigger voltage, because they sold it for long enough alongside modern autofocus cameras and digital cameras -- the 336VM was in their catalogue in the mid-2000s.

A bit of a google says that the trigger voltage has been measured by someone as being low -- 6V or 9V:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/1137724

https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/377021-portaflash-compatibility/

This says 5V:

https://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/uncategorized/portaflash-digital-studio-kit-32040

But these numbers seem to have changed over time, so unless you've safely used them with a modern autofocus camera from say the year 2000 onwards, if you have a multimeter, I'd check! 

waist.it or Gothic Image can probably advise you on exactly what to do. 

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

I am 99% sure they are a 2.5 mono jack socket.

Another thing to check is the voltage.

Some older flash units threw a high voltage through the wire which can damage newer camera systems.

Pretty sure the Portaflash are not high voltage, but worth checking first.

Unfocussed Mike said

sepiashots said

Unfocussed Mike said

Conflicting evidence! For example the cables here appear to be PC flash to PC flash:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305835714335

But if you look at the back of the unit in photos, that socket is not a PC socket (it wouldn't be anyway, that would fall out).

It looks more like, say, a 3.5mm mini jack socket:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286101133692

A commenter at DPReview says:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/1886894

But the question is what they mean when they say it's smaller than others. That could mean 3.5mm (smaller than a typical vintage 1/4" jack).

And then there's this page, where someone measures their connector and it appears to be smaller than a 3.5mm connector and is likely to be 2.5mm:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/portaflash-studio-system-query.987092/

So you might need a PC to 2.5mm jack cable, which is quite common in short coiled lengths, because some battery flashes use those... but not that common in long, studio-spanning lengths.

Or a long PC to 3.5mm cable and a 3.5mm to 2.5mm barrel adapter.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Thanks Mike appreciate your research. Does it matter if I get a 3.5mm and use an adapter which is effectively stereo rather than mono.

Not sure. Obviously in the audio world, stereo jacks were designed to work in mono sockets. But exactly whether that Portaflash would have a difficult connector I don't know. I'd try a mono jack adapter if you go that route:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mono-2-5mm-3-5mm-Socket-Adapter/dp/B000LAUXPG/ 

There is one remaining concern here, which is trigger voltage!

I really don't know about whether it is safe to use the 336VM with a modern camera.

My guess would be, yes, Jessops specified this unit with a low trigger voltage, because they sold it for long enough alongside modern autofocus cameras and digital cameras -- the 336VM was in their catalogue in the mid-2000s.

A bit of a google says that the trigger voltage has been measured by someone as being low -- 6V or 9V:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/1137724

https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/377021-portaflash-compatibility/

This says 5V:

https://www.whatdigitalcamera.com/uncategorized/portaflash-digital-studio-kit-32040

But these numbers seem to have changed over time, so unless you've safely used them with a modern autofocus camera from say the year 2000 onwards, if you have a multimeter, I'd check! 

waist.it or Gothic Image can probably advise you on exactly what to do. 

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

No, not really. Yes they fit. But there is a major cockup in the design insofar as on a mono jack, the sleeve connection actually covers where the right channel ring would be on a stereo connection. So if you plug a stereo jack in a mono socket, you normally only hear the left channel. This is probably not the best diagram on the planet, but it was the only one I could find quickly. Nevertheless, hopefully you can see the issue. Ignore all the text regarding "balanced" and "Unbalanced". It is not relevant for this discussion...