Photographers - getting value from paid shoots

Tim Forest said

Unfocussed Mike said

Tim Forest said

Your portfolio will distinguish you as a person who uses your camera to make photographs of merit, or not.

You know, there's a nice short word for people like that.

apologies if I've upset you Mike, not my intention, I'm very sorry. Do, please, carry on enjoying your photography. It's a great hobby, or otherwise, entirely up to you

Sorry I should have put a smiley face in that one!! I was grinning as I wrote it. You might have annoyed me earlier but you are game, I will give you that :-)

For me my photography has changed somewhat over all the years I've been on PP.

I started out only shooting tfp, as my main aim was to hopefully provide images for people that may not have had the chance to get by themselves.

This was stemmed by losing my wife and suddenly seeing that we don't always get enough pictures of lovedones while there here with us.

This is why my favourite shot to date is of a couple who are in love and embraced during a shoot.

I've never been a chaser of money, I've mostly been below the breadline all my life but money has never interested me.

It's only since having to sell my house and living rough that I've started considering shooting with paid models, this has still been rare tbh, but it has given me chance to spend time with people I've followed and admired over the years.

It's also given me a way of helping a few people to improve their lives.

These days I seldom shoot at all as my reclusiveness has gotten worse over time and not being able to post the shots onto my folio - has only lead to a lack of incentive.

Gothic Image the amazing thing is that it goes even further OT after you posted Andy.

The Ghost said

Gothic Image the amazing thing is that it goes even further OT after you posted Andy.

I've had to send out for more popcorn! 

sorry late starter  only one question ...How is value for money quantified ?  

@Golding said

How do you know they don't have permission to post images on their OF? Or anywhere else for that matter? 

Personally I don't hold myself in such a regard that I would get my panties in a twist if a model used any of my images on their OF, infact I make a point of telling them they can use them wherever they like.

Its just a photograph. Its not life or death.

This!

If I do a shoot with a model either paid or TF then they get all images and can do what they want with them.  I don't care if they just hit delete.  It's the enjoyment  of shooting with a model for me. Some models have become friends others I wouldn't shoot with again even if they offer to pay me and that includes some of the popular models on here.  If there is no "spark" between us then I'm not going to waste my money on shooting with them again

ANDY00 you have to argue about everything on here even if 100% of other people disagree with you.  Why? I can be the most argumentative twat ever but I don't argue if I think I'm on a losing battle.  I just back out and let everyone else have their say and either come round to their way of thinking  after hearing all the arguments or I'll just think well I have my view and they have theirs.  Maybe you should try it sometime

BLAMissKW said

sorry late starter  only one question ...How is value for money quantified ?  

Perhaps value wasn't the right word for me to use in the subject title... but my question was intended to help me understand what gratification, satisfaction, reward, return on investment etc. the other photographers on here get from model shoots that make them happy to pay for them. Asking the question mainly because I'm not getting much gratification from sharing the final image on social media these days. But it seems from those who have addressed my original question that most people are enjoying the journey rather than the destination - if the time spent shooting and editing is enjoyable well that's the return on investment :) 

I was curious as to whether there was any other outlet people have for their finished images that maybe I've been missing but it would appear there isn't! 

MarkGerrardPhotography said

@Golding said

How do you know they don't have permission to post images on their OF? Or anywhere else for that matter? 

Personally I don't hold myself in such a regard that I would get my panties in a twist if a model used any of my images on their OF, infact I make a point of telling them they can use them wherever they like.

Its just a photograph. Its not life or death.

This!

If I do a shoot with a model either paid or TF then they get all images and can do what they want with them.  I don't care if they just hit delete.  It's the enjoyment  of shooting with a model for me. Some models have become friends others I wouldn't shoot with again even if they offer to pay me and that includes some of the popular models on here.  If there is no "spark" between us then I'm not going to waste my money on shooting with them again

ANDY00 you have to argue about everything on here even if 100% of other people disagree with you.  Why? I can be the most argumentative twat ever but I don't argue if I think I'm on a losing battle.  I just back out and let everyone else have their say and either come round to their way of thinking  after hearing all the arguments or I'll just think well I have my view and they have theirs.  Maybe you should try it sometime

Eh I stopped commenting pages ago? You’re quoting me, so I’m replying—that’s called a conversation. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and in this case, mine just happened to be the only one backed up by law (not just opinion). People can have different opinions and discuss them without it turning into an argument. Was I rude to anyone? No. Did I break any rules? No. Did anyone get angry? No. That’s called a discussion.

It’s a subtle difference, but here’s an example: I disagree with you, but I’m not angry about it. :-)

Every single person on this site has their own opinion and is entitled to it, just as everyone has the ability to scroll past opinions they don’t like or agree with. What you clearly lack is the capacity to do so. :-) I’m very sorry my opinion broke your scroll button! 

Edited by ANDY00

Who would have thought having an idea, wanting to create an image, actually doing it could be so complicated.

I see artists with an easel painting the canal nearby me. I see people book life models to be subjects for their painting [paid or some other arrangement]. Most of those do so because they want to - like painting, like creating, like making, like developing a style, some may also look into selling their work or having prints made and selling those or putting in a book or maybe licencing for a book cover or almost anything else, even to publish a "how to paint book"

Someone buys a camera and only shoots models or maybe just random snaps of other things as well and suddenly the world becomes incredibly complicated and bugger all to almost anything the artist may do, despite the output being an image and the input being someone creating it, possibly with help from someone else. 

Shakes head in disbelief and files thread into more forum bollocks section

Paul, I get you, the model scene here in Ireland is pretty much non existent. No idea why, some seriously good looking girls here, but the model scene is dead it is, completely.

We also venture to warmer climates for model shoots, or rather we did. For us it was the journey, the setting up, the planning and shooting. It cost a small fortune but was worth it.

Now were shooting extensively video our model shoots have dried up completely so we’ll be looking towards actors and actresses in the future. It’s a buzz we enjoy, either that or take up golf…… nope not for me either.

Tim Forest said

Allesandro B said

Tim Forest said

Unfocussed Mike said

Unfocussed Mike said

Tim Forest said

wow, noisy room

to keep it clean can we make a few distinctions?

A photographer = someone who makes his/her living taking photographs

A model = someone who makes his/her living being photographed

No.

Extend this out: are you saying that people aren't gardeners unless they do it for a living, artists unless they get paid?

Aren't really in a band unless they have quit their day job

Aren't guitarists unless it's their living

Aren't teachers unless it's their salary

etc.

It's nonsensical.

no, literally, it's what it is.

you work in a camera shop, you're in retail.

you lay bricks, you're a bricklayer

you do surgery, you're a surgeon

that's not nonsense it's literally what it is. Why is that hard to understand?

Because it's just your opinion not a fact

everyone, as the old adage goes, is entitle to their own opinion. No one is entitled to their own facts.

If you have 'photographer' in your passport, you're probably a photographer. Otherwise, an amateur (not such a bad thing), or, more broadly 'a person who uses a camera to make photographs'

So when you joined, did you click the 'not a real photographer' button? I must have missed that—was it somewhere between the professional and amateur photographers' sections? According to any dictionary, a photographer is anyone who uses a camera. That’s why if a 16-year-old takes a selfie, media sites and copyright laws recognize them as the photographer.

You don’t need to be paid to be a photographer. In fact, these days, few are. You don’t need to be paid to be an artist—some of the most famous artists in the world died poor. You don’t need to be paid to be a golfer. And you don’t need to be paid to be a model. It’s the act of doing something that gives you the title.

If you sing for people at a church or club, you’re a singer, regardless of pay. If you paint houses, you’re a painter, regardless of pay. This isn’t an opinion—it’s a fact.

Paul Gerrard said

BLAMissKW said

sorry late starter  only one question ...How is value for money quantified ?  

Perhaps value wasn't the right word for me to use in the subject title... but my question was intended to help me understand what gratification, satisfaction, reward, return on investment etc. the other photographers on here get from model shoots that make them happy to pay for them. Asking the question mainly because I'm not getting much gratification from sharing the final image on social media these days. But it seems from those who have addressed my original question that most people are enjoying the journey rather than the destination - if the time spent shooting and editing is enjoyable well that's the return on investment :) 

I was curious as to whether there was any other outlet people have for their finished images that maybe I've been missing but it would appear there isn't! 

I ponder this and think there is a market but I'm not sure how you gain traction