Photographers - getting value from paid shoots

Tim Forest said

If you have 'photographer' in your passport, you're probably a photographer. 

When did you last have a passport?

More than 20 years since British passports listed your occupation.

Same with my other passport.

JonC said

As it is some time since I earned the majority of my income from photography, it is a revelation from this thread that I am no longer a photographer. The Royal Photographic Society thinks otherwise, but what do they know.

given that they are mostly retired dentists very little, just ask a working photographer.

fair point, lets try tax return

and to be clear, I'm pretty sure you are a farmer? right?

Tim Forest oh I spent many years as a ‘working photographer’ but thank you for your great insight that all that and my work means nothing.

If you need to be making money from things you do to be called it , what options are you left with ?

Pretender

Tim Forest said

JonC said

As it is some time since I earned the majority of my income from photography, it is a revelation from this thread that I am no longer a photographer. The Royal Photographic Society thinks otherwise, but what do they know.

given that they are mostly retired dentists very little, just ask a working photographer.

It's your genuine contention that artists who make a living as artists think that people who don't, aren't?

I honestly think this speaks a little more of your own worldview, and I'm a little sad for you. 

Answering the question!!!!

I do no shoots other than me paying a model.

I have just finished one an hour ago.

We shot in a studio with the most fantastic available light in some incredible areas.

The model I shot with understands the sort of images I want to make and throws herself into everything. The result of this is that totally crap ideas can suddenly develop into exciting things and we are both swept away with the moment.

I don't care whether anybody sees these images. It is the absolute pleasure in making them that keeps me doing this.

This includes the interaction of shooting. The editing and the re-editing.

I try to shoot with models that enjoy...or at least say they enjoy...shooting the odd stuff I do.

I would never shoot TF. This would be the kiss of death.

JonC said

Tim Forest oh I spent many years as a ‘working photographer’ but thank you for your great insight that all that and my work means nothing.

tremendous respect Jon, making a living in photography is a tough old game. But a former Judge is a former Judge, an ex jockey is an ex jockey, hang up your camera, you are a former photographer There is no shame in that and I am not knocking experience or talent or the quality of anyones portfolio. This is a conversation about TFP and a models right to be paid. All I'm trying to suggest is that photographer, in my mind at least, is someone who makes his or her living from making photographs. A fisherman with a rod beside a river is a person with a hobby, if you are on a trawler in a force nine in the Atlantic you are an absolute legend of a fisherman.

So, if you want to make photographs of a girl with her shirt off, pay her a living wage, because it's your hobby and her time. And if you don't have anything more to offer than a framed 8x10 (nice though that may be) it's not really enough of a bauble to get any traction.

Lenswonder said

If you need to be making money from things you do to be called it , what options are you left with ?

Pretender

good start, a little personal insight is a valuable thing

So to be clear... none of the people who took these were photographers? Just people who use(d) cameras? 

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Tim Forest I'm not actually agreeing with you Tim but you are entitled to your view.

It would be a very boring obituary for anybody if we are only described by our money making profession.

if you get paid for a living as a photographer, surely that would make you a "professional photographer", not a photographer?... so that leaves all the rest of us as "photographers" does it not?

parkway said

if you get paid for a living as a photographer, surely that would make you a "professional photographer", not a photographer?... so that leaves all the rest of us as "photographers" does it not?

Oh shush with your semantics and logic. ;-)

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

Tim Forest said

and to be clear, I'm pretty sure you are a farmer? right?

I may or may not be a farmer, but I earn my living from HGV Driving and being a Consultant Engineer.  I'm also an unpaid carer, but according to your logic I'm not a carer, nor am I cyclist, or any of the other things that take up my time.  

Tim Forest said

fair point, lets try tax return

Wrong again... my tax returns do not specify that either. They list employment details and any businesses that I earn an income from, but they make no definition as to "what" I am.