Large file format - necessary ?

Trolling?  No - simply providing a counter argument.  I agree that for the vast majority of people who just want to post pictures of their cat or selfies in front of the Eiffel Tower, a smartphone camera is more than adequate.  In fact, pretty well any smartphone camera in the last ten years would do the job.

Does that mean that those of us who consider ourselves "photographers" would be just as well off with a smartphone?  Perhaps for some types of photography, yes, but if you ask "do people still need big, expensive cameras with fancy zoom lenses if they aren’t working for a newspaper or covering sports etc?" I'd suggest that the answer is no - it's a bridge too far.

Sales figures for smartphones are growing at an incredible rate and sales of conventional cameras are dropping like a stone. Yes, a large number of people have decided that for the photography they do, a smartphone is all they need.  It's handy, convenient and part of a one-stop-shop that also lets them navigate, listen to music and pay their bills.  Why wouldn't they?

But consider those sales figures a moment. We might accuse fellow photographers of GAS, but smartphone users have it in spades. The majority of smartphones are on one year or eighteen month contracts, where the 'phone is replaced at contract renewal. How many people have three or four old smartphones lying in a drawer, all perfectly usable but discarded because they aren't the latest "shiny" thing? That's one of the unheralded reasons behind the numbers - a business that deliberately brings those numbers up for commercial reasons.  Extra sales doesn't necessarily mean extra users.

To put things in context, yesterday I did a location shoot that involved a two hour drive and lugging equipment half way up a quarry. There was an S20+ in my pocket, and I used it for a number of general background and BTS shots. The actual model images were shot with a R5 and assorted lenses.  It's horses for courses.

I do use my smart phone for everything but model photography and it is perfectly OK for that.

But I like to play with these images on a big screen.

I am incapable of doing any editing on a phone but cropping.

One question to those of you who do use their phone cameras seriously, I use a Samsung and no matter how I try I always find the images look a bit oversharpened.

Does anybody else notice this.

Are iphones similar?

Gothic Image Wait a second... Did you just disagree with me by, uh, agreeing with me? I’m confused. You say it's a counter-argument, but I must’ve missed the part where you actually, you know, disagreed. I mean, I never mentioned smartphone sales—I was talking about active smartphones, as in, the 6.92 billion in people’s pockets right now and snapping away recoreded by active cims. So yeah, if your 'counter' is to bring up the shiny-new-phone-every-18-months bit, cool, but that just backs up the point about smartphones being the dominant tool people use for photography, right?

Oh, and didn’t you just say you used your phone on a shoot yourself? So, you’re actually proving my point—that smartphones are being used more and more for photography. Thanks for backing me up!

I appreciate the effort, though. This is like a Jedi mind trick where you say you're disagreeing while totally agreeing with me. Impressive. 😉

As I mentioned in my original post, some people will still need dedicated cameras and equipment for specific types of photography, but the reality is that mobile phones are taking far more pictures, and that’s where the funding and real advancements in tech are going. Like all things in the commercial world, as demand for SLRs drops, their cost may actually rise. Eventually, SLRs could even become specialist tools that, like in the past, only full-time pros can afford to buy.

I'm not great at taking images with a mobile myself—I love my 5D Mark III too much because I've used it for years and know it inside out. The new generation of photographers, however, haven't needed to learn all that. They've grown up with mobile smartphones and drones, almost instinctively understanding them. Now, those embracing photography are creating incredible art, and it doesn't need to be printed. They post to platforms that matter to them, go viral, and reach millions of people who like, comment, and share their work instantly. That's what the new world of photography is all about.

               Drone image                                          Smart Phone image

Edited by ANDY00

Hmm

Smartphones are catching up, scarily fast.

Photographer, model, and had stunt training for films here so here is my tuppence:

IMHO cameras will win (currently) for long exposures, timelapses, and good enough quality images for large format printing. I have a photogrphy exhibition next year and there's no way i'd take, and print phone photos for it.

Phones allow convenience for quick snaps, portability and ease of use. So they can work with a set up for models (probably not so much in studio with lighting triggers etc!).

I've recently worked on a film which was filmed on ipone. Just had huge lenses and rigs still attached. I'm sure it works.

There'll always be an element of the best camera is what you have with you...but it also depends who's using it!

Personally I prefer using a 'proper' camera, I know my settings and how I like to compose an image with it. Bar taking selfies with a phone and social snaps, I wouldn't have a clue with my phone and would be fumbling all over!

Edited by Baldbraveandbeautiful

JPea said

I do use my smart phone for everything but model photography and it is perfectly OK for that.

But I like to play with these images on a big screen.

I am incapable of doing any editing on a phone but cropping.

One question to those of you who do use their phone cameras seriously, I use a Samsung and no matter how I try I always find the images look a bit oversharpened.

Does anybody else notice this.

Are iphones similar?

As I've said, I'm not great with using a phone and tend to stick to my SLR, but I think the trick, as I understand it, is to use a pro mode app that works like a traditional camera, allowing better control of shutter speed and other settings. But hey, I’m far from an expert on that in all honesty, wish i was.

JPea Samsung pre-edits photos. So yes, sometimes mine look to sharp, not that I take many. Samsung also has fun with vibrancy - especially grass - it looks really over vibrant if you compare next to the real thing even before you take the shot. And it uses AI for moon shots.

Never used iphone so can't compare.

JPea have you tried shooting the Samsunbg in Raw?

Samsung also have an ExpertRaw App to download - much more flexible replacemant for the camera App.

Baldbraveandbeautiful said

JPea Samsung pre-edits photos. So yes, sometimes mine look to sharp, not that I take many. Samsung also has fun with vibrancy - especially grass - it looks really over vibrant if you compare next to the real thing even before you take the shot. And it uses AI for moon shots.

Never used iphone so can't compare.

I think that's part of the evolution of smartphone cameras—a shot that looks better than real life. Sharper, brighter, more vibrant, etc. As photographers, we’ve learned to love the process of taking a raw shot and enhancing it in Photoshop. But for the new generation, as I mentioned in my original post, it’s all just a click of a button. Want to remove someone or something from the shot? There’s an app for that. Is it raining and you want it sunny? App for that. Think this shot would look better with a friend in it? Yep, app for that too.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m very much old school, but I kind of wish I wasn’t. A phone is a lot lighter to carry around. And it’s not like the images being created by this new generation are rubbish—some of the shots they’re capturing with smartphones (and drones) are downright incredible.

And again, as I said, it comes down to how you share your images. If you’re printing them, you probably still want a dedicated camera. But the new generation shares everything on online platforms—they don’t print. If they wanted to display their work, it would most likely be in a digital frame or on an iPad screen, etc.

Also, you may need more specialized lenses for certain shots beyond what a phone can do, and that's fair enough. I’m not suggesting that everyone should switch to phone photography. My point is simply to highlight where the trending technology is taking us: towards small-format images tailored for instant online publishing and fast editing using one-click apps, basically the photography world seems to be moving into thos throw away digital age where everything is online and instant, again the Mc happy snap :-)

Some institutions are beginning to display artwork and artifacts through digital screens instead of the actual items, such as the Vatican, the British Museum, the Library of Congress, and the Smithsonian Institution. This is simply the evolution of technology, and like print, physical display is becoming a diminishing art form.

Edited by ANDY00

Huw Yes I have shot in raw and I have played a bit in Lightroom.

I didn't know about the Expert raw app. I will try that.

Thanks for that information.

JPea said

I do use my smart phone for everything but model photography and it is perfectly OK for that.

But I like to play with these images on a big screen.

I am incapable of doing any editing on a phone but cropping.

One question to those of you who do use their phone cameras seriously, I use a Samsung and no matter how I try I always find the images look a bit oversharpened.

Does anybody else notice this.

Are iphones similar?

The newest iPhones seem to sharpen a bit less at the pixel level, but yes, this is a fundamental quality issue with mobile phones, which tend to have extremely small, high resolution but very noisy sensors. The camera firmware does quite aggressive noise reduction, and then sharpens heavily to recover detail.

Huw I downloaded the Expert raw and played with a few shots. I do find it very odd. I seem to get a reasonable result and then....kerpow....it looks rubbish.

The best results I can get are shooting in Lightroom but I find it very difficult to play around with them on a phone.

As an aside, one of the good features I have found with the Samsung phone is to verbally tell it to take a photo.

Weirdly fascinating.

JPea said

Huw I downloaded the Expert raw and played with a few shots. I do find it very odd. I seem to get a reasonable result and then....kerpow....it looks rubbish.

The best results I can get are shooting in Lightroom but I find it very difficult to play around with them on a phone.

As an aside, one of the good features I have found with the Samsung phone is to verbally tell it to take a photo.

Weirdly fascinating.

Yep, I found it a bit odd - but seems powerful.

ANDY00 said

Baldbraveandbeautiful said

JPea Samsung pre-edits photos. So yes, sometimes mine look to sharp, not that I take many. Samsung also has fun with vibrancy - especially grass - it looks really over vibrant if you compare next to the real thing even before you take the shot. And it uses AI for moon shots.

Never used iphone so can't compare.

I think that's part of the evolution of smartphone cameras—a shot that looks better than real life. Sharper, brighter, more vibrant, etc. As photographers, we’ve learned to love the process of taking a raw shot and enhancing it in Photoshop. But for the new generation, as I mentioned in my original post, it’s all just a click of a button. Want to remove someone or something from the shot? There’s an app for that. Is it raining and you want it sunny? App for that. Think this shot would look better with a friend in it? Yep, app for that too.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m very much old school, but I kind of wish I wasn’t. A phone is a lot lighter to carry around. And it’s not like the images being created by this new generation are rubbish—some of the shots they’re capturing with smartphones (and drones) are downright incredible.

And again, as I said, it comes down to how you share your images. If you’re printing them, you probably still want a dedicated camera. But the new generation shares everything on online platforms—they don’t print. If they wanted to display their work, it would most likely be in a digital frame or on an iPad screen, etc.

Also, you may need more specialized lenses for certain shots beyond what a phone can do, and that's fair enough. I’m not suggesting that everyone should switch to phone photography. My point is simply to highlight where the trending technology is taking us: towards small-format images tailored for instant online publishing and fast editing using one-click apps, basically the photography world seems to be moving into thos throw away digital age where everything is online and instant, again the Mc happy snap :-)

Some institutions are beginning to display artwork and artifacts through digital screens instead of the actual items, such as the Vatican, the British Museum, the Library of Congress, and the Smithsonian Institution. This is simply the evolution of technology, and like print, physical display is becoming a diminishing art form.

 

Edited by ANDY00

I think I might actually agree with most of that!  :-)