To shoot or not to shoot?

..Pippa . And others: the Fediverse, Mastodon and other apps and servers, doesn't have the limits Meta/Instagram etc impose or the nastiness Twitter supports.

That's by design, structure, and operation, not by newness or coincidence.

Sturgeon's Law applies, and/but the 900th picture of a person on a rock retains merit as being a picture of that person by that photographer, and indeed that rock. There are many of each. Applied rather than pure/fine.

This too shall pass away.

Edited by MidgePhoto

We've all become in some way addicted to the mini-dopamine-hit of "likes" on social media. (And those with only fans etc have added a financial need to that too) Is it healthy? absolutely not. As the internet becomes more and more full of AI slop will art created by humans still retain - if not grow - in value? Hopefully yes. 

It's easier said than done, but creatives on either side of the camera ultimately create because they have to create. The rest is just noise. 

One reason I miss the market of print sales is that ten years ago I paid most of the cost of a week shooting in Iceland by selling four prints.

That's the market that has gone now.

playwithlight

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You have to love the irony in life. IG, Facebook etc. dont accept anything nude, topless etc. yet families go into art galleries

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Art galleries are someone's workplace, and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have a no-porn on work computer rule ...

Facebook was supposed to be a 'safe place, were nudity was not the norm.

Thanks to many level pushers, Facebook is no longer a 'safe place'.

I'm no prude, and I enjoy nudes as much as the next person on this site ... but they don't have to be *eveywhere*.

Unfocussed Mike said

Every single electric guitarist who has played since the middle of 1966 has lived (if they are aware) with the knowledge that they will never, ever be Jimi Hendrix -- unambiguously one of the most fluid, expressive, innovative, entertaining, daring, inspiring and creatively generous musicians who has ever lived. Why play the guitar when Hendrix seemingly perfected it? Musicians did quit or change instruments while trying to process their loss.

And yet! Fleetwood Mac's "Man Of The World" was recorded in 1969, Santana's Samba Pa Ti in 1970, and so on. All the way to Rodrigo y Gabriela in 2006, and onwards. 

The problem of a venue for art nude is a perennial one but it's not only art nude photography that can't go, or doesn't work, or is suppressed to hell on Instagram. 

But I wouldn't worry about Instagram. There is a bigger epoch change than Jimi Hendrix coming, and you can see it everywhere: people are logging off various places on the internet, never to return.

Social media ate culture. AI will eat social media. It will shatter into smaller and smaller communities: the idea that a photo needs to go on Instagram to exist in any meaningful way is a concept that will fade away.

Edited by Unfocussed Mike

I'm so old I cant even post properly on this thing... 

I completely understood Unfocussed Mike's comments regarding Hendrix and the explosion he created.. My favourite single of all time (as a guitarist myself since the late '60s) is Voodoo Chile. I remember being mesmerised by it on first hearing, and thought it was time to give up, as everything had been said in that 3 or so minutes of audio... Then later I heard Stevie Ray's version live and just wondered how he completely captured the sheer energy of the original. I like to live by the 'Keep your eyes and your head open' maxim, but I too, as a photographer have waned so many times in the past.. why bother ? But then every now and then (usually over a long timespan) something just happens, and the image appears. Agreeing with the whole anti-social media slant, surely we don't need to be globally/nationally/locally famous or impressive ? Was it Hugh who said he takes pictures for himself..? Art is exactly that, in my opinion, the need to express oneself.

Huw why did that market exist?

Stu H said

playwithlight

[Snip]

link report reply

You have to love the irony in life. IG, Facebook etc. dont accept anything nude, topless etc. yet families go into art galleries

[Snip]

Art galleries are someone's workplace, and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't have a no-porn on work computer rule ...

Facebook was supposed to be a 'safe place, were nudity was not the norm.

Thanks to many level pushers, Facebook is no longer a 'safe place'.

I'm no prude, and I enjoy nudes as much as the next person on this site ... but they don't have to be *eveywhere*.

I agree with you especially in the workplace, schools. colleges and the vast majority of public buildings. Art galleries its to be expected and in museums and in the UK stately homes and former landed gentry abodes. 

I used to have a Scandinavian girlfriend back in the day and she & her family had a totally different view on nudity than the British. 

If it's a hobby and you do it because you enjoy it, then what's the problem. Shoot away and have fun. No need to worry about what anybody else thinks.

Although some paintings and artworks can be a bit strong on nudity it's still different from the nudity of a photograph.

I use social media (mainly IG) as that gives me an opportunity to connect sith dancers and friends all over the world and hopefully inspire some more adults to take up dance regardless of age if that is what they love doing but are reluctant to start.

But - I shoot because I love the process and to be creative. I would shoot regardless of having an IG account or not, and I often shoot when I feel down and need a boost as it gets me out of my head. Planning a shoot, preparing for it, then meeting a fellow creative person to work with and try out things - that makes me happy. Sometimes the images might not work - but I still had a fab time shooting. Sometimes we had a fab time and got some great photos - bonus. o regrets either way.

So I would say, shoot if that is what makes you happy. And if it doesn't, then maybe stop for a while. I went through a phase where I was very ill and also not in a good headspace and the thought of a photoshoot would make me hide under the duvet. So I didnt even think about it for a long while and suddenly, I was craving to shoot so I did.

I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer. But the one thing that is important is that we do what works for us at that time. I shoot for me, not for others. Regardless of if I share the results on IG or not. :)

I find that what I crave more than "likes" is the approval of my peers, and that's much harder to come by. I am sad, though, that the larger less restrictive services have gone the way of the dodo. RIP Ello, Implied, etc etc. I have hope for the fediverse but critical mass has not yet agglomerated. 

MidgePhoto said

Huw why did that market exist?

Reaching the market is the problem.

Most Art Print collectors are US or European.

Artfinder used to be good - even though they took 50% - so I was selling prints for £450 and getting £225.
Then they got greedy - wanted a monthly payment, and upped their percentage to the point that it killed the viability.

Digital technology and printing has probably contributed.
The best way to make a living from Fine Art Prints now is to be a dead American. 

Prices are all over the place now, no real logic.

Huw said

Inspired by another post….

Is there any point?

We are engulfed in a tidal wave of mediocrity, with occasional sparks of excellence struggling to be seen before being drowned.

Not exclusively PP by any means.

Mainly IG. Probably OF as well, though I haven’t checked.

My preferred “art form” is/was the large BW print. Nudes in the landscape.

Obsolete now.

As Pippa  said in the other thread, if it can’t go on IG, what’s the point.

***********

Bit of nihilism for a rainy Sunday….   ;)

There’s a lot of parts to your post. 

  “Is there any point?” … To photography? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on your values, caveat being most do not seem to know their (real/core) values.

  “We are engulfed in a tidal wave of mediocrity, with occasional sparks of excellence struggling to be seen before being drowned.” … I refute this statement. Genuinely great, original work is consistently being created, shown and celebrated online, on social media, in print, and on walls. Work that compels me to repeatedly return to view it. Work that both inspires and ‘humbles’ me. After decades of ‘immersion’ in this craft / business / art, I continue to find fresh, amazing photography.

Throughout all of human existence, in any given creative endeavour, hasn’t mediocrity always been exponentially more ‘prolific’ than excellence? Hasn’t excellence consistently risen above the ‘wave’? I think it has (and does).

  “Not exclusively PP by any means.” … Work on PP is predominantly derivative, erratic and blatantly superficial. It is not a ‘venue’ to (often) find carefully conceived, original, crafted, and (subjectively) tasteful work. Neither is social media or the internet ‘at large’ of course, but you can ‘curate’ your viewing on these platforms to a degree. Or seek out great curators.

  “My preferred ‘art form’ is/was the large BW print. Nudes in the landscape. Obsolete now.” … Obsolete? Now? I’m not sure I understand how/when ‘large mono prints of nudes in landscapes’ was anything more than a niche’y-niche in any period of photographic history.

  “As Pippa said in the other thread, if it can’t go on IG, what’s the point.” … Depends on your values, caveat being most do not seem to know their (real/core) values. Pippa’s perhaps looking to promote her business as a model. Perhaps succeeding in the independent modelling business is a core value for her. IG would therefore be an important consideration for her. It’s not for me - haven’t posted on it in years. Different values - I don’t have the cheekbones. 

Huw said

One reason I miss the market of print sales is that ten years ago I paid most of the cost of a week shooting in Iceland by selling four prints.

That's the market that has gone now.

There appears to be more to this than the OP. It sounds like you are missing the opportunity you used to seek and obtain for third parties to subsidise your hobby and maybe see problems with IG and art nudes as not being compatible with your work but need it to stand any chance of getting new buyers. That is a whole host of additional restrictions and expectations that someone who is doing this purely for their own enjoyment does not have to place upon themselves.

Some markets die over time and are either replaced by new ones or permanently dead. It has always been the case, just the rate at which it is happening has increased exponentially due to many factors. If someone doesn't need or want it, then it is redundant.

I hate anything paper now, it is not environmentally friendly, takes up too much space and I want it digitised anyway as it is easier to find, read, look at and back up. I used to like the idea of having some of my own prints, but that has diminished to only a select few and as monitors improve further, it may well diminish to zero. All that has not had any effect on my enjoyment of my own photography. Not having to think about getting stuff printed and having space allocated has saved plenty of space and ultimately means I can live in a far smaller footprint.

I am seeing the opportunities now as all the restrictions I used to have to put up with - inadequate lighting solutions, lenses that wouldn't do what I wanted them to do have largely been eradicated and I have started to understand exactly what it is I am trying to create as I have keep evolving. I am completely insulated from others disappointments and negative opinions as I have more than enough to get my teeth into. I am of the view that you can get more out of life if you put more into it and provided your expectations of what you are looking for others to do is still realistic. Doing what you have always done and expecting what you always have got from others is never the road to Nirvana, especially now when we have many more choices available to us on how we actually want to live our lives.