Chemistry between Model and Photographer - How Important is it?

You don't need to know someone to create a rapport and generate good results but I would agree that repeat shoots often tend to be more relaxed and productive.

B.

Shandaz said

Is that really so strange?

Yes.

I don't think chemistry between a model and a photographer is "important" - professional photographers who are in-house employees of top magazines and brands for instance don't need to "get to know the model" first before they start producing their work. Similarly, professional or experienced models are more than capable of producing exceptional work without there being any rapport at all.

Does it help to establish rapport? Which, by the way, is a far better word for a professional environment than chemistry. Sure. Good rapport during a shoot can help put everyone at ease, make the process more enjoyable and contribute towards some great imagery. Is it important? Well, no - not if everyone involved is otherwise competent at what they do. And for what it's worth, positive rapport can be established on the day of a shoot at the point at which everyone shows up ready to get going.

The way you've described your shoots sounds positively weird to me. To a point where your interest appears to be less in the shoots and more in cultivating relationships. Your wording strikes me as creepy. Inverted commas around the word friends? Winking at each other? Like, nah man.

But hey, that's just my take. Other people might not notice the red flags. Each to theirs. 

Personally, I don’t find it difficult to build a relaxed working relationship within the first 20 minutes or so on the first shoot. I can only think of one shoot in 40 years or so where that was difficult. Not the model’s fault either, she was competent, we were just very different people.

Probably a more important skill than most of the photographic technicalities. 

The Portrait Cowboy said

Shandaz said

Is that really so strange?

Yes.

I don't think chemistry between a model and a photographer is "important" - professional photographers who are in-house employees of top magazines and brands for instance don't need to "get to know the model" first before they start producing their work. Similarly, professional or experienced models are more than capable of producing exceptional work without there being any rapport at all.

Does it help to establish rapport? Which, by the way, is a far better word for a professional environment than chemistry. Sure. Good rapport during a shoot can help put everyone at ease, make the process more enjoyable and contribute towards some great imagery. Is it important? Well, no - not if everyone involved is otherwise competent at what they do. And for what it's worth, positive rapport can be established on the day of a shoot at the point at which everyone shows up ready to get going.

The way you've described your shoots sounds positively weird to me. To a point where your interest appears to be less in the shoots and more in cultivating relationships. Your wording strikes me as creepy. Inverted commas around the word friends? Winking at each other? Like, nah man.

But hey, that's just my take. Other people might not notice the red flags. Each to theirs. 

I respect your viewpoint. Truly as you said - I started this thread to get viewpoints and yours is clear and thanks for expressing it.

I worked for Fashion Magazines and Ad Agencies in Europe for almost 7 years shooting editorials and advertisements - and my experience is that the best ads and editorials were shot within a group of models and photographers who not only shot together, but also hung out together a lot. We knew which side is better, which hair style works best, if her mood is off on a day and how to overcome it... And the same applied to models. They would request specific photographers - sometimes me, sometimes someone else when shooting a campaign. It was a group, it worked!!

Edited by Shandaz

The Portrait Cowboy said

Shandaz said

Is that really so strange?

Yes.

I don't think chemistry between a model and a photographer is "important" - professional photographers who are in-house employees of top magazines and brands for instance don't need to "get to know the model" first before they start producing their work. Similarly, professional or experienced models are more than capable of producing exceptional work without there being any rapport at all.

Does it help to establish rapport? Which, by the way, is a far better word for a professional environment than chemistry. Sure. Good rapport during a shoot can help put everyone at ease, make the process more enjoyable and contribute towards some great imagery. Is it important? Well, no - not if everyone involved is otherwise competent at what they do. And for what it's worth, positive rapport can be established on the day of a shoot at the point at which everyone shows up ready to get going.

The way you've described your shoots sounds positively weird to me. To a point where your interest appears to be less in the shoots and more in cultivating relationships. Your wording strikes me as creepy. Inverted commas around the word friends? Winking at each other? Like, nah man.

But hey, that's just my take. Other people might not notice the red flags. Each to theirs. 

The OP is not English.

American English has slightly different usage of words.

As a model I absolutely believe that the more comfortable and relaxed I am with someone, the better the images. And very often if I have worked with a photographer more than once I tend to find the images get better each time we shoot, so I would agree with you on that one! :) 

The one thing I have to be cautious of as a model is professional boundaries. There are some photographers I have shot with numerous times who I thoroughly enjoy working with and they're great people to be around, but does that mean I then want to go for a drinks, dinner and spend hours sending memes back and forth... Absolutely not..! I think that's where a lot of the trouble lies because some photographers do try and 'blur the lines' between a professional relationship and a friendship. 

And, I guess once again it's very much down to you and the model you are working with. Some models might be more than comfortable to strike up friendships within their work.. But I dare say the majority like to keep their 'professional life' and their 'personal life' completely separate :) 

Huw said

The OP is not English.

American English has slightly different usage of words.

I acknowledge that there is truth in what you say but having spent considerable time working with Americans (from various States) I can say that the nuances I've observed above cannot be dismissed as a regional language discrepancy.

Miss_C said

As a model I absolutely believe that the more comfortable and relaxed I am with someone, the better the images. And very often if I have worked with a photographer more than once I tend to find the images get better each time we shoot, so I would agree with you on that one! :) 

The one thing I have to be cautious of as a model is professional boundaries. There are some photographers I have shot with numerous times who I thoroughly enjoy working with and they're great people to be around, but does that mean I then want to go for a drinks, dinner and spend hours sending memes back and forth... Absolutely not..! I think that's where a lot of the trouble lies because some photographers do try and 'blur the lines' between a professional relationship and a friendship. 

And, I guess once again it's very much down to you and the model you are working with. Some models might be more than comfortable to strike up friendships within their work.. But I dare say the majority like to keep their 'professional life' and their 'personal life' completely separate :) 

Miss_C,

Thanks so much for jumping in with a very practical viewpoint. And you are absolutely right!! 

I think growing up in an environment where we were all young 20 yr olds, working together and partying together, I may have failed to graduate into the world where there is a huge age difference and literally a generation gap between the person in front of the lens and the person behind it... I think that is what I am failing to understand.

For me photography is about creating moments, and I cannot do that with someone I just met and don't know anything about. 
I have been gone from the scene about 5 years - because I really got busy with different type of (much more financially rewarding) work and a lot of my model friends are now mothers and doing regular jobs or have moved up as model managers, executives and business people. 

What you said, makes me understand a lot!! 

Thank you
Shan

Shandaz said

Miss_C said

As a model I absolutely believe that the more comfortable and relaxed I am with someone, the better the images. And very often if I have worked with a photographer more than once I tend to find the images get better each time we shoot, so I would agree with you on that one! :) 

The one thing I have to be cautious of as a model is professional boundaries. There are some photographers I have shot with numerous times who I thoroughly enjoy working with and they're great people to be around, but does that mean I then want to go for a drinks, dinner and spend hours sending memes back and forth... Absolutely not..! I think that's where a lot of the trouble lies because some photographers do try and 'blur the lines' between a professional relationship and a friendship. 

And, I guess once again it's very much down to you and the model you are working with. Some models might be more than comfortable to strike up friendships within their work.. But I dare say the majority like to keep their 'professional life' and their 'personal life' completely separate :) 

Miss_C,

Thanks so much for jumping in with a very practical viewpoint. And you are absolutely right!! 

I think growing up in an environment where we were all young 20 yr olds, working together and partying together, I may have failed to graduate into the world where there is a huge age difference and literally a generation gap between the person in front of the lens and the person behind it... I think that is what I am failing to understand.

For me photography is about creating moments, and I cannot do that with someone I just met and don't know anything about. 
I have been gone from the scene about 5 years - because I really got busy with different type of (much more financially rewarding) work and a lot of my model friends are now mothers and doing regular jobs or have moved up as model managers, executives and business people. 

What you said, makes me understand a lot!! 

Thank you
Shan

Hi Shan! 

You're very welcome! That's a really honest response and I think that says a lot about you and your intentions :) 

I am a massive fan of Peter Coulsons work and the way he shoots his models. So much about mood, emotion, story telling... He's not called the 'eye photographer' for nothing...! So I am very much on that wave length of building rapport with the people I am working with. I guess it is about building 'friendships' of sorts... just professional ones...? Haha!

Next time I am in New York  I will send you a DM :P Haha! 

I never feel the need to meet pre shoot. With the models I work with, they don't have time for that. Then there is the travel to meet up. All pre-comms are done on PP. I have worked with some wonderful people. References both ways are always positive which means potential shoot subjects can read and decide yea or nea. I do have returnees as a result of first experience and one or two very firm friends from working together. 15 years ago when most shoots were TF and no reference system om MM sometimes someone living very local would want to meet. These days the majority of models work with photographers for their business. Time meeting up means loss of income.

ClickMore 📷 said

I never feel the need to meet pre shoot. With the models I work with, they don't have time for that. Then there is the travel to meet up. All pre-comms are done on PP. I have worked with some wonderful people. References both ways are always positive which means potential shoot subjects can read and decide yea or nea. I do have returnees as a result of first experience and one or two very firm friends from working together. 15 years ago when most shoots were TF and no reference system om MM sometimes someone living very local would want to meet. These days the majority of models work with photographers for their business. Time meeting up means loss of income.

Completely get it. For me creating 'moments' is no longer about income and I always pay the models for the meet and greet meetings.

But if both parties are focused on maximizing 'productive time' on a cash per hour basis - YOU are absolutely right.

For me, my time is super expensive. So, before I pick up the camera and research a location, book a mansion or flights to a location, I rather spend the money to meet the model, get a meeting of minds first... Or all the investment that I will finally make for the shoot may be a total lost cause :)

Some of my greatest shoots , I only ever met the model once.

Just happens that we got on , the model enjoyed the shooting environment. Liked the ideas, felt safe , had a few laughs and we had a lovely shoot. I think usually that's all you need, it's great if you can shoot again with a model and produce the same quality and enjoyment as before but I think sometimes multiple shoots with the same person doesn't work.

If you are actually working on a new idea that you both like that enjoyment and rapport will come with it.

Of course it also depends if your personalities connect.

This idea of 'friends' with models I'm sure it can happen but I'd question if money is involved what level of friendship it is. It wasn't a long time ago that a photographer posted a thread on here about himself thinking he had a sort of 'relationship' with a model. It sounded more like he was being used without realising or he was thinking the relationship was something that it wasn't.

Edited by Lenswonder

(Disclaimer: Personal opinion. And I already know some will disagree)

I never ever meet with photographers one on one in person outside of the actual shoot date, even photographers I've worked with many times and are relatively close with.

A long time ago I've experienced issues where ... I met up with photographers outside of shoots as friends ... However, they started expecting me to do them favours (e.g. Lower my rates) or some got annoyed at me when I wasn't consistently keeping up casual communication with them like friends would ... 

Nowadays ... There's only a very select few that have known me for a long time ... I consider friends? And perhaps they know a bit about my personal life as well ... But I've still never gone out with them outside of shoots.

Shoot ideas are easy enough to communicate through PP, Instagram, WhatsApp, email etc. I don't see a reason to have to meet in person to discuss them. This is just my observation I'm not saying every photographer is like this: Often I find ... photographers who want to meet in person are very pushy about it ... They tend to just want a friendly chat rather than discussing aspects of the shoot ... They are also often those who take forever to actually settle a booking with me. 

In conclusion (although there's probably more I can say to this), I prefer not meeting photographers outside of professional purposes, especially those I've never worked with before. Possible risks? ... Possibly wasting my time? ... Why are you insisting and why is it so necessary? ...

To answer the OP’s question…

It’s important to me.

It might not be important to others.

FunPhotographer said

To answer the OP’s question…

It’s important to me.

It might not be important to others.

Thanks FunPhotographer  

Right!