Its quite hard work spending money on models

Spartacusimages I’m slightly surprised this thread is still going. I nearly said it in the early stages but since you’ve reworded this, I’ll bring it up anyway.

Maybe review your wording and length of your bio. It’s very wordy, and a lot of stuff that models probably don’t really care about. The younger gen don’t care about attention to detail, just that you get to the point.

There’s lots of bold, a massive ONE, a bold Friday, I don’t allow this, I don’t allow that. It’s a lot of negativity and bolding of words that some may deem controlling.

They can see for themselves you have over x amount of references. It doesn’t need to be pointed out.

I appreciate you may be trying to weasel out time wasters, perhaps instead have template replies if you don’t want to keep repeating yourself. From my perspective and experience on here keep the words to a minimum, only go into detail when you need to. Try and cut the ping pong with a phone call and then do a shoot plan email they can read when they have time, and ask that they acknowledge receipt. Job done.

Perhaps get models perspective on this rather than mainly photographers. Reach out to who you’ve shot perhaps several times and ask for feedback and how things have perhaps shifted in the past 5 years.

Firstadekit said

Spartacusimages I’m slightly surprised this thread is still going. I nearly said it in the early stages but since you’ve reworded this, I’ll bring it up anyway.

Maybe review your wording and length of your bio. It’s very wordy, and a lot of stuff that models probably don’t really care about. The younger gen don’t care about attention to detail, just that you get to the point.

There’s lots of bold, a massive ONE, a bold Friday, I don’t allow this, I don’t allow that. It’s a lot of negativity and bolding of words that some may deem controlling.

They can see for themselves you have over x amount of references. It doesn’t need to be pointed out.

I appreciate you may be trying to weasel out time wasters, perhaps instead have template replies if you don’t want to keep repeating yourself. From my perspective and experience on here keep the words to a minimum, only go into detail when you need to. Try and cut the ping pong with a phone call and then do a shoot plan email they can read when they have time, and ask that they acknowledge receipt. Job done.

Perhaps get models perspective on this rather than mainly photographers. Reach out to who you’ve shot perhaps several times and ask for feedback and how things have perhaps shifted in the past 5 years.

Thank you for your advice I took out loads and took your points on board 

Spartacusimages much more appealing profile notes. Well done :)

Huw yes it's much better. Glad the chaperone issues cleared up. I always use one because I was assaulted on a shoot despite good references etc. I know most are not like that but I would rather not like to be put in that position again. It's also why I generally don't do nude anymore.

Jessica Knight exactly, both viewpoints are valid.

Jennie Blythe said

Spartacusimages said

Jennie Blythe

Totally understand what you say, but therfore if an external studio don't work either I may well find shooting models for me maybe at it's end of the road. Sexual abuse is about in every walk of life. Too many business turn a blind eye looks at Harrods 😓. My wife is a phycologist registered with police and extremely well qualified if she is no good for a females protection then what is. It is actually her rule about no chaperones she feels that unknown models are enough of an invasion in her life without chaperones as well. So I guess my days in this industry are nearing an end.

Precisely re: Harrrods. It's everywhere. The majority of people are not predatory but some are - I really would not be offended by someone being streetwise. 

He has 272 references on PP. 272 of which are positive. The risks are basically zero. 

playwithlight said

Jennie Blythe said

Spartacusimages said

Jennie Blythe

Totally understand what you say, but therfore if an external studio don't work either I may well find shooting models for me maybe at it's end of the road. Sexual abuse is about in every walk of life. Too many business turn a blind eye looks at Harrods 😓. My wife is a phycologist registered with police and extremely well qualified if she is no good for a females protection then what is. It is actually her rule about no chaperones she feels that unknown models are enough of an invasion in her life without chaperones as well. So I guess my days in this industry are nearing an end.

Precisely re: Harrrods. It's everywhere. The majority of people are not predatory but some are - I really would not be offended by someone being streetwise. 

He has 272 references on PP. 272 of which are positive. The risks are basically zero. 

Unfortunately historical experience with other photographers has proved otherwise. :-(

Gothic Image said

playwithlight said

Jennie Blythe said

Spartacusimages said

Jennie Blythe

Totally understand what you say, but therfore if an external studio don't work either I may well find shooting models for me maybe at it's end of the road. Sexual abuse is about in every walk of life. Too many business turn a blind eye looks at Harrods 😓. My wife is a phycologist registered with police and extremely well qualified if she is no good for a females protection then what is. It is actually her rule about no chaperones she feels that unknown models are enough of an invasion in her life without chaperones as well. So I guess my days in this industry are nearing an end.

Precisely re: Harrrods. It's everywhere. The majority of people are not predatory but some are - I really would not be offended by someone being streetwise. 

He has 272 references on PP. 272 of which are positive. The risks are basically zero. 

Unfortunately historical experience with other photographers has proved otherwise. :-(

Then what else are genuine, honest & respectful photographers supposed to do and what's the point of the reference system? 

Don't go there, it's been discussed many, many times. Some miscreants know how to use it to their advantage.  :-(

Edited by Gothic Image

playwithlight said

Gothic Image said

playwithlight said

Jennie Blythe said

Spartacusimages said

Jennie Blythe

Totally understand what you say, but therfore if an external studio don't work either I may well find shooting models for me maybe at it's end of the road. Sexual abuse is about in every walk of life. Too many business turn a blind eye looks at Harrods 😓. My wife is a phycologist registered with police and extremely well qualified if she is no good for a females protection then what is. It is actually her rule about no chaperones she feels that unknown models are enough of an invasion in her life without chaperones as well. So I guess my days in this industry are nearing an end.

Precisely re: Harrrods. It's everywhere. The majority of people are not predatory but some are - I really would not be offended by someone being streetwise. 

He has 272 references on PP. 272 of which are positive. The risks are basically zero. 

Unfortunately historical experience with other photographers has proved otherwise. :-(

Then what else are genuine, honest & respectful photographers supposed to do and what's the point of the reference system? 

Simple. Allow a chaperone if the model requests with a genuine reason. Nothign will stop the predators no matter how much we try, but lets face it sitting around naked being phtogrpahed will tend to draw them like flies. So likely to be more in this industry. At least three I have worked with have been banned by PP and not by me. Thats not a low proportion   I feel proably 6 percent. Or one in 16 shoots.

playwithlight said

Gothic Image said

playwithlight said

Jennie Blythe said

Spartacusimages said

Jennie Blythe

Totally understand what you say, but therfore if an external studio don't work either I may well find shooting models for me maybe at it's end of the road. Sexual abuse is about in every walk of life. Too many business turn a blind eye looks at Harrods 😓. My wife is a phycologist registered with police and extremely well qualified if she is no good for a females protection then what is. It is actually her rule about no chaperones she feels that unknown models are enough of an invasion in her life without chaperones as well. So I guess my days in this industry are nearing an end.

Precisely re: Harrrods. It's everywhere. The majority of people are not predatory but some are - I really would not be offended by someone being streetwise. 

He has 272 references on PP. 272 of which are positive. The risks are basically zero. 

Unfortunately historical experience with other photographers has proved otherwise. :-(

Then what else are genuine, honest & respectful photographers supposed to do and what's the point of the reference system? 

You don't need to do anything other than respect the models wishes or move on. The photographer is respectful after all? 🤷‍♂️

Jennie Blythe said

CalmNudes said 

... Full-time models are not paid enough to employ a full time chaperone. So the chaperone requirement says amateur with trust issues,  ...

Let's not get into personal character assessments here. Suffice to say I travel the world solo, meet people I have met via Instagram, live in a big city etc. I'm not "paranoid" but I am careful. 

It's not really a character thing. I work with established professional models, but they're not paid enough to hire a full time minder. So if someone routinely brings the same unpaid hanger-on then it's reasonable to assume they're not doing the thing on a full time professional basis.

I'm all for them being careful and sensible; checking references, picking a place and time where help is within earshot if the photographer isn't known to them etc. The prudent pro is greatly preferable to the paranoid amateur. 

Firstadekit said

playwithlight said

Gothic Image said

playwithlight said

Jennie Blythe said

Spartacusimages said

Jennie Blythe

Totally understand what you say, but therfore if an external studio don't work either I may well find shooting models for me maybe at it's end of the road. Sexual abuse is about in every walk of life. Too many business turn a blind eye looks at Harrods 😓. My wife is a phycologist registered with police and extremely well qualified if she is no good for a females protection then what is. It is actually her rule about no chaperones she feels that unknown models are enough of an invasion in her life without chaperones as well. So I guess my days in this industry are nearing an end.

Precisely re: Harrrods. It's everywhere. The majority of people are not predatory but some are - I really would not be offended by someone being streetwise. 

He has 272 references on PP. 272 of which are positive. The risks are basically zero. 

Unfortunately historical experience with other photographers has proved otherwise. :-(

Then what else are genuine, honest & respectful photographers supposed to do and what's the point of the reference system? 

You don't need to do anything other than respect the models wishes or move on. The photographer is respectful after all? 🤷‍♂️

I think you're pointing out the obvious. The models want clients the photographers want models the system by and large works on Purpleport. I never shoot at home without my wife being here, Ive never stated no chaperones and may I add worked professionally in the film, TV, commercials industry including stills for over 40 years running a very large organisation (and dealt with all kinds of employee issues including sexual harassment). Ive run photography workshops and come across dubious characters so I know there are less than ideal people unfortunately they exist in all lines of business the creative industries are not unique in that respect.  

If the chaperone is a deal breaker I can and have shot. Been dropped off and picked up, but it's all hassle and much easier to just have them along. Apart from anything else they hold lights and help me get dressed. I am more relaxed and more likely to up my level.

Edited by Jessica Knight

I have just shot a model for 2 days at a Shepherds hut and meadow in Gloucestershire. I found LEnza on here. Great model and reliable. Check out my image of her. We shot 12 sets, but just got back this evening. She fought the bad weather and we concoured.