Its quite hard work spending money on models

Huw said

Spartacusimages said

Gothic Image there have been very many so not able to be spefic, 11 this year so far. But as I mentioned in opening I try to list as many points as possible, rate, level, accurate location, days of week, flexiblity, times, sample images, travel is always paid as well on top of rate. I think my castings or messages are comprehensive.

Edited by Spartacusimages

Is it possible that you write too much? Not easy to wade through loads of writing on a phone.

My suggestion was four short sentences. No more. Yes/no answer, plus a date for the shoot.

Agreed - hence my request above for an example.  One person's useful details can be another's TL:DR.

Huw said

priceb61 said



FarmerSteve said

The point of a chaperone is that it's someone the model can trust - if the model doesn't know your "partner", how do they know they can trust them or if they even exist? All the model knows is that they are going to be going to the home of a complete stranger and potentially placing themselves in a situation where they are vulnerable. Relying on 270 positive references isn't foolproof because there have been cases where people with lots of positive references have been found out to be less than trustworthy and there's always a "First" victim.

Excellent point. That is precisely what happened to a friend of mine. 60+ positive references and the guy turned out to be a nightmare, pestering her for sex during the shoot.

So did she report it? Or leave a negative reference?

Or is he still here to prey on the next model?

No longer on PP but he may well be on other sites.

Shandaz said

RaphaelPhoto said

Lenswonder said

The lovely thing about the site is , if you do get ignored a better choice of person may just be round the corner for you. Sometimes they even come in twos! Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

In fact, it's exactly what happened to me some years ago. I was talking to a once very popular model here (now retired) about a shoot on Instagram, then, for a reason I don't give a shit about she decided to ghost me. So, I blocked her and moved on, but I still had to find a replacement for the shoot. I then contacted another model on here that not only resulted on the beginning of a long collaboration that is still going on to this day but she also became a dear friend of mine and we had a ton of fun.
Moral of the story, it's best to ignore people who don't care and focus on people who do, you don't want to deal with the former in the first place anyway.
Being ghosted is good, embrace it, it saves you time and most likely some other bullshit as well.

RaphaelPhoto - the thing you said about becoming friends and creating lots of amazing work together... That is exactly what drives me to create moments!! 
There is no point otherwise right?

No, I consider it to be an extra, I am very selective when it comes to friendship, and not only friendship for that matter, so when it happens it's quite a special thing for me.
That being said, it has nothing to do with my photography, I am perfectly fine with creating amazing work with models I have no rapport whatsoever with. Reading you other post, it seems to me that you use photography in order to  build a rapport with your models, almost as if their were your partner, I quote you: "memorable moments and it almost always involves booking a AirBnB in a nice location or traveling to areas". Which clashes with the fact you are paying them for their time, there cannot be any genuine relationship when money is involved, it's a professional transaction, period.
So no, I don't see it that way, personally I just want to express my art. So, like I said on the other post, it's cool when it happens but it's not a requirement for me as I don’t need any friend or partner and even if I did, I would not use photography as a mean to get it.

Huw you actually make an excellent point about word count.

Gen Z are all about the instant dopamine hit. We're in the TikTok era, where if you can't get your point away in 30 seconds, don't bother.

They don't want to wait, or have anticipation or build up, instant gratification is what they want.

Have you noticed how on some online short videos, they actually clip the payoff and put it right slap bang at the start of the video?

Attention spans are through the floor these days. So it's best to keep it very short and very simple.

JME Studios said

Huw you actually make an excellent point about word count.

Gen Z are all about the instant dopamine hit. We're in the TikTok era, where if you can't get your point away in 30 seconds, don't bother.

They don't want to wait, or have anticipation or build up, instant gratification is what they want.

Have you noticed how on some online short videos, they actually clip the payoff and put it right slap bang at the start of the video?

Attention spans are through the floor these days. So it's best to keep it very short and very simple.

A good summary from someone 14 years younger than me. If someone around this age can 'see it' this obviously, consider how those photographers that are 10, 15, 20 years older than me feel / perceive things / attempt to get on 'the same page' with the typical Gen Z modus operandi ? 🤣

John VonGeezer said

Its not just you. Im sure booking shoots used to be much easier.

What mojo i regained lately has rapidly expired dur to the sheer difficulty in actually getting a booking i feel confident will go ahead.

Studio days may be the answer. Let someone else do all the work!

100% John

Aardvark🎯VonEssfolk said

JME Studios said

Huw you actually make an excellent point about word count.

Gen Z are all about the instant dopamine hit. We're in the TikTok era, where if you can't get your point away in 30 seconds, don't bother.

They don't want to wait, or have anticipation or build up, instant gratification is what they want.

Have you noticed how on some online short videos, they actually clip the payoff and put it right slap bang at the start of the video?

Attention spans are through the floor these days. So it's best to keep it very short and very simple.

A good summary from someone 14 years younger than me. If someone around this age can 'see it' this obviously, consider how those photographers that are 10, 15, 20 years older than me feel / perceive things / attempt to get on 'the same page' with the typical Gen Z modus operandi ? 🤣

I'm 40 on Sunday.  I literally can't binge-watch.  I have to watch one episode, then I'll watch the next one a week later.  The old fashioned way.

The only exception is I stayed up late to see the final episode of The Grand Tour to avoid spoilers.

Most models reply and most of them accept my offer. Sometimes a model is too expensive so we don't shoot. Often they will make me an offer and occasionally I get no reply. Instagram is another matter. Very few reply and then a small proportion of those will end up with a shoot.

I just had another look at your profile. I really can't understand why you are getting such a poor response.

.

I am in a reasonable distance and have never been asked :-) its ok I am being a little tougue in cheek... but what you mean is you are running out of certain types of model, provided I am not already booked I would jump at the chance

RaphaelPhoto said

[snip]

Reading you other post, it seems to me that you use photography in order to  build a rapport with your models, almost as if their were your partner, I quote you: "memorable moments and it almost always involves booking a AirBnB in a nice location or traveling to areas". Which clashes with the fact you are paying them for their time, there cannot be any genuine relationship when money is involved, it's a professional transaction, period.

I disagree.  Surely the model still needs to earn an income, even if they're a friend?

Same experience for me over the last few weeks and in the context as the OP’s offer of a shoot.

Nothing back after several messages !!

Gothic Image said

RaphaelPhoto said

[snip]

Reading you other post, it seems to me that you use photography in order to  build a rapport with your models, almost as if their were your partner, I quote you: "memorable moments and it almost always involves booking a AirBnB in a nice location or traveling to areas". Which clashes with the fact you are paying them for their time, there cannot be any genuine relationship when money is involved, it's a professional transaction, period.

I disagree.  Surely the model still needs to earn an income, even if they're a friend?

Bit sad really, if you can’t be friends with people you work with!

Shandaz

‘Models are goddesses’

No. Models are professional models.

They are people - usually young, female, creative, a weird mixture of introvert and extrovert, physically expressive, professional and a whole heap of other things.

Putting them on a pedestal as ‘goddesses who need to be taken care of’ feels unhealthy.

JME Studios

‘We're in the TikTok era, where if you can't get your point away in 30 seconds, don't bother.’

This is an oft-stated and lazy truism.

IME it’s far from accurate. My 16 year-old and their peer group are ferociously bright, tenacious and intellectually critical. I struggle to keep up - and I’m not entirely stupid.

Simon Carter Simon Carter - Here is the thing. Just because they are professional (and I beg to differ on that point because most art models have a second job to support themselves) - does not make them less than goddesses.

Also it’s not about taking care of them. It’s about making sure that they get at least 2 things out of shooting with you.

Either : 1) Fame which leads to modeling contracts that make them a lot of money

OR 2) Great shots that make them feel like goddesses + enough money to support themselves.

There are 2 reasons to do effort for creating content

1) Artistic Persuasion where you are not looking to make money - most photographers here (of course there are exceptions)

2) Financial persuasion where you let you be the medium for someone’s artistic persuasion - most models here (of course there are exceptions here too)

In my world, someone who lets you define your imagination is a goddess/god.

Shan