Models: art-nude models: The supply of art-nude models: retention, and recruitment of new ones

For what it's worth even when offering lower rates for art nude, it hasn't been viable for most and I personally have seen (without being told for politeness sake) that other models have been preferred over me. Not necessarily a deterrent but I have yet to find more than one person who's wanted to book me for art nude - at the same time I think I give too much of a 'glamour girl' vibe - being short, curvy and cool 😎

Gothic Image said

harbuzenger said

Huw said

...

Is PP somehow an uninspiring or unwelcoming place for potential art nude models, considering the overwhelming concentration glamour content?  ..."glamour nude".

...I'd argue that this exact platform (functionally) being duplicated and rebranded as "artsociety.com" or something to that effect, all dark mode and hipster-y, would be more attractive to many of the artists on this site already, ...

I've heard the "PurplePorn" moniker on more than one occasion, and frankly a look through "Recently added images" on any one day won't do much to dissuade you.  Perhaps there needs to be some means of explaining to potential models that art nude isn't the same as BLBP?

Which probably involves some sort of approach to a definition.  A loose definition because it is a loose concept even for those of us who are willing to accept labels on some of our pictures.

1. There's the approach of definition by example: this collection of images are art-nude, and that collection are not art-nude.

2. There's the approach of definition from theory or opinion or consensus or authority. 

3. There's the approach of explicitly saying that there are pictures which are more arty and ones which are less arty, porny, glammy and so on, and saying that there are several dimensions* you can place a picture on, or attributes* of a picture, and ones which are art-nude tend to be in a cluster over there, and baldy lit  bedroom porn tends to be in a cluster over there and there might be some other clusters.

4. Surely there are other approaches

As to subsetting the site, I think there is a scale problem, that there needs to be a sufficient size for a network effect, and one risks dropping below that; and there's the problem of two subscriptions, because I think it is unusual for photographers to take only one sort of photo or to only want to look at one sort, and the same applies to models.  So using the available tools and solving their problems rather than inventing a new one and hoping it is free of a problem seems wisest, if rather less exciting. Whether the experience offered by PP could be configured more, so as to imitate the effect is possibly worth thinking about, I suspect the answer would be that it could, but that it would be underused.

* they may be different names for the same thing, as are the tables or grids people sometimes draw. For instance there is a mono-colour dimension but that doesn't mean pictures are evenly distributed around 50%, it means the colour is mostly 0 or 1 - a short binary dimension. Exceptions of course exist.

Ivy Vxlentine said

For what it's worth even when offering lower rates for art nude, it hasn't been viable for most and I personally have seen (without being told for politeness sake) that other models have been preferred over me. Not necessarily a deterrent but I have yet to find more than one person who's wanted to book me for art nude - at the same time I think I give too much of a 'glamour girl' vibe - being short, curvy and cool 😎

I'm only replying to Ivy as the thread has gone for 8 pages now.

I don't pay different rates of different levels as I value the model's time and expertise, not her body. As my budget for this year is already spent, would you be interested in working with my next year? Either locally in Switzerland or remotely in the UK (we'd have to check the camera side of that of course) But I don't see anything that would put me off working with you. Even the most gorgeous models I've worked with would name another model as being more beautiful than them… it's all bullshit. everybody is beautiful to somebody. It's about finding that match.

I've checked your portfolio… I can't see a reason not to work with you. Based on your portfolio you could easily charge 80€/h in mainland Europe. That'd make 40-50 quid in the UK? If you have problems getting jobs in the UK, you might want to look into a EU  work visa.That's get you 3 months of EU rates which should easily offset the visa cost. Based on your port photos you'd find a ton of photographers in no time flat.

Sacha Saxer oh thank you for this comment and the advice. I've messaged you!

However, without digression- i am responding to Midge as one of the models he's worked with a few times recently- though we've never shot art nude together. And I'm sure to some degree he can back my statement in regards to preferences and location being a prominent factor etc as it could be that both the appearance and location of models could provide some insight to his query! And hopefully my thoughts will be insightful one way or another

Personally over the past year Ive been moving more towards non-nude shoots. Thats not to say I would not still shoot nude models but its become more my preference.

harbuzenger said

Huw said

So....   

Is PP somehow an uninspiring or unwelcoming place for potential art nude models, considering the overwhelming concentration glamour content?
Including what might be called "glamour nude".

I would say it isn't considered as a "serious" place to create/showcase art.  Not that art needs to be serious but I'd argue that this exact platform (functionally) being duplicated and rebranded as "artsociety.com" or something to that effect, all dark mode and hipster-y, would be more attractive to many of the artists on this site already, and those that aren't (yet) but would like to dip their toes  and are more interested in being a part of art than glamour.  

Some of the sniffy comments I hear about PP liken it more toward OF-Lite than an art platform, which is no slight on its functionality or usefulness, only it's perception.  Maybe that does put potential models off that would be comfortable working art nude but want to be taken more seriously as an artist than as a "naked model".

?

What like modelsociety.com? There's a few people from PP on there already. Although it seems more US focussed.

Getting to be time for a summary.

I'm not aware of this all having been done before here or elsewhere - if anyone is, that'd be a useful link.

Here's a history of an aspect https://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/renaissance_nude/inner.html

It places assorted Xians as a problem. 

I for one think 'finishing' with a bit of textbook Adler seems appropriate.

:-)

Ivy Vxlentine it is true that the more athletic model can do artnude better, however , I have experienced hour glass models do just as well. It's about your approach to posing and if it's different to the basic and many models don't go beyond the basic poses.

Ivy Vxlentine said

... responding to Midge as one of the models he's worked with a few times recently- though we've never shot art nude together....

And thank you, for shooting and responding.  I agree, Exeter doesn't give us a large network effect, unlike for instance London or other large European cities.

Lenswonder I agree with this but how would this help contribute to the question of finding new art nude models or kinda keeping the flow for those who already do it?

Trying to keep it in line with what has been asked as the topic.

Lenswonder said

Ivy Vxlentine it is true that the more athletic model can do artnude better, however , I have experienced hour glass models do just as well. It's about your approach to posing and if it's different to the basic and many models don't go beyond the basic poses.

I agree it is about creativity plus the ability and the courage to do something a bit different. I don’t think that Roswell Ivory would object to my saying that she was curvy but when we decided to shoot my sort of art nude together she produced some wonderful poses which gave me some great images.

Ivy Vxlentine I think that is a hard question to answer. If most new models are going on websites like OF, not sure this is proven. Rather than traditional modelling it won't happen much. Perhaps a good idea would be to raise the pay of artnude but for that I think there should also be a proven system so the photographer knows they are getting a model that understands what's expected of the genre.

Photographers could also perhaps tap into the life drawing market which would most likely have models with the skills required in artnude. I'd rather have a small amount of models with a passion for the genre rather than a larger size about the pay but less skilled.

@allesandroB (sorry it won’t let me reply/quote you for some reason). Yeah I guess like model society but only really in name. Functionality here on PP is really very good but does the aesthetic scream “class”? I’m not sure…

If there was such a thing as an agency for art nude or other, more serious genres I’m sure it wouldn’t look like PP (in looks).

This site does catch all though, which should mean more potential people to work with, but as we’ve picked up on, perhaps it’s just not attractive to the type of model who might be more interested in more classical work who wants to enjoy an online experience with a more classic look…?

I guess another question is “are there enough photographers (and, I guess, new/young up and coming photographers) capable of/wanting to shoot ‘proper’ art nude?”