Models: art-nude models: The supply of art-nude models: retention, and recruitment of new ones

Holly Alexander said

I've not noticed a decline in art nude models, in fact I see more and more amazing art nude work these days, even on Instagram where they have to be edited to be suitable of course.

I don't think models generally only do nude, it's more of models have a wide range of levels and things they are good at.

I've done art nude since I was 18 but I'm more known for lingerie, fashion and beauty and I enjoy those genres a lot more. I'm also picky with the type of photography I work with art nude as some interpretations are not what I would class as artistic so it's a personal thing too.

I guess models starting out is different, it takes time to build experience and work out the modelling industry, who to trust, what red flags to look out for, before being in the vulnerable position that art nude requires.

Have to disagree ; there has been a significant decline that pre-dates the pandemic/lockdown. Like some others in this thread, I don't really shoot models much now, if at all, so not something that really affects me, but the downturn in creative output on various social media platforms, including PP, is as plain as night & day.

I don't think there is anything photographers can do to facilitate recruitment of newcomers to the scene - "models" are simply following the the money, and that is now in the likes of OnlyFans etc. Photography is a "dead business", if anything it's going to get worse with AI created imagery eating into the commercial sector ( which will restrict job opportunities for models too ).

So what we're left with are the dedicated few, who have always been in it for the art. But they represent a tiny percentage of the PP demographic.

Question for MidgePhoto : Not sure your analogy of "fish where the fishes are" really applies to models. What would you consider to be their natural habitat ? 

Edited by xaldub

"...stopped shooting ... after too many bad experiences" is a tragedy to an inconvenience on several levels.

There seem to be adequate reasons for trying to reduce that to whatever might be an irreducible minimum even before we consider the inconvenience to photographers this thread is about.  

For the photographers and perhaps studio owners it reflects bad things being done by people who are us or from a distance look like us, so also affects our reputations.

It intersects with some other worthwhile changes znd efforts in wider society. (And is opposed to some horrid ones).

Also, if not attended to it may yet bite all of us.

xaldub said

Holly Alexander said

I've not noticed a decline in art nude models, in fact I see more and more amazing art nude work these days, ....

Have to disagree ; there has been a significant decline ...

I'm not inclined to disagree with what people have (not) noticed, it is sharply unfashionable*.

It would be nice, possibly even useful, to have numbers (indeed, as Mr Carter amended, the object of the thread is to ensure we have figures to work with)

Can any numbers be obtained or presented?

Does anyone keep a useful statistic?

If not, might one be generated?

If the perception does not match objective reality, what causes the mismatch?

* also, if not literally impossible it is practically impossible to do so accurately from experience since one has not had the experience. There's a shorter portmanteau for doing it.

I think some great artnude models simply move on because of life changes or they no longer want to model to that level , it's not all bad experiences. You can't blame them all moving on because of some bad experience reason. People just move on and that's fine,as a photographer if you want to carry on shooting artnude just keep searching on and off websites , work on your own methods of selection.

You have to remember only a few are really true artnude models, you aren't an artnude model just because you pose naked.

Edited by Lenswonder

Sadly, I agree that in the UK the purely figurative model seems to be on the decline but as others have commented they still appear to be more numerous in continental Europe where the genre seems to be more generally appreciated and much better paid.

One can hardly blame newer models choosing more lucrative and possibly less demanding nude work. I have always felt that figurative work is the hardest form of modelling from a physical aspect  - early morning starts, cold and inclement conditions for outdoor work (often after a long trek to reach the location), not to mention having to avoid the public which seems to be increasingly difficult these days. Maintaining uncomfortable poses is par for the course be it on location or in the studio. I also believe that a good figurative model needs to be able to provide a large amount of creative input so that they largely, but not exclusively, have a background in the arts (especially dance) - or gymnastics which immediately reduces the available pool of models.

So yes, it will always come down to the dedicated few but they also have to survive in the current economic climate so the dedicated few are even fewer! 

xaldub said

...

I don't think there is anything photographers can do to facilitate recruitment of newcomers to the scene - "models" are simply following the the money, ....

Question for MidgePhoto : Not sure your analogy of "fish where the fishes are" really applies to models. What would you consider to be their natural habitat ? 

...

(Several strategies are implicit in the statements of failure above, and I have discussed models, and not-models, not 'models' in scare quotes, and hope others will. )

The question.

A contemporary* musician, Sir Michael Jagger, nicely put something similar in relation to musicians and income, on Radio 4 some years ago. Unless you are a member of a band such as his - the Trundling Boulders or something similar - almost all** the people*** in the world who would or would like to buy your music have never and probably will never know you exist. Something similar applies to photographers in general, and, I submit, in reverse to people who would like and be good at a particular activity.

The fish we seek are swimming in a sea of people. (The original form I heard it in was business advice - for business, set up to do what other people want done rather than what you Wang to do or think should be fine. But here we are talking art, although there is a business to art, including particularly the sort made in person once by manual processes.

To put it another way, the world's most talented mathematician is**** pushing a plough. He may well invent trigonometry. If he had had the opportunity to explain that had already been done, and how, he might work out a crucial step in stabilising a superhot compressed torus of Deuterium and light Helium, and we could have fusion power. I digress, but not far.

* remarkably

** a small proportion, possibly very small

*** about 8000 000 000 of them*

**** this is as undisprovable as Bertrand Russell's orbiting teapot, but I feel is more plausible.

I think part of the problem will be distinguishing between art nude models and models who take their clothes off?

Hmm….   That’s a bit complex for me.

Plenty of suitable people out there on Instagram. Trouble is, they are already posting great photos of themselves hiking in spectacular countryside, so they don’t need photographers. 

Plus, there’s a brilliant “non-nude outlet” - IG.

And there’s a big money earner for the outstandingly attractive who are prepared to shoot it….   OF.

Whats missing is somewhere between IG and OF.

I am one of the only two active art nude models in the whole of the North East region. Myself and the lovely Bobbi Castle. I think a lot of newer models are put off by the horror stories of creeps, and possibly also partners having issues with it. My husband was pretty resentful of me wanting to do it at first, took a lot for me tl convince him it's art not porn

Richard Maxim said

... they still appear to be more numerous in continental Europe where the genre seems to be more generally appreciated and much better paid.

... a good figurative model needs to be able to provide a large amount of creative input so that they largely, but not exclusively, have a background in the arts (especially dance) - or gymnastics which immediately reduces the available pool of models.

...

Has something happened which opposed British models going to work on the Continent where there is a market, and supply, and/or models from the Continent where there is a supply coming to work in Britain?

If so, it would be useful to unpick, reverse and/or work round it.

Is there scope to encourage the enablement or production of 18* year olds with a background in thd arts, especially dance, or gymnastics? My uninformed impression is that physical education has been reduced, and Arts hampered in recent quinqennia. Is this different in a more generally European community, and would that account for the difference suggested above?

* which implies earlier ages, in education, and doesn't exclude later ages, for which some activity is in place, but may be tilted otherwise.

To me, an art nude model has a certain figure and equally a certain knowledge of posing in a certain ‘art nude’ way.

This is to such an extent that they can look at an image on the back of the camera and say they don’t like the way their little finger is placed, or need to rotate their hips, or even talk about a strong and weak side of their body for particular poses.

They can also work with props such as a chair, ladder, block or steps in a studio and ‘morph’ into the prop to create an image where it’s hard to know where the model begins or the prop ends. I have also seen models on here that do the same with the strata in a cliff face, a tree etc.

Many ballet dancers, yogis, gymnasts (particularly rhythmic gymnasts) and figure skaters have this double criteria. But the idea of posing nude conflicts with what they do or who they are.

There are many great accounts from these genres on Instagram and as a place to look for new models, this could well be a potential source. But I am not sure they would make the move to art Nude if the haven’t already.

That said, it is feasible for many to appear in elegant, floral, concrete type settings and clothed that work really well to allow the viewer to appreciate their figure and form. And also fit the criteria sometimes used in this thread of  ‘hanging wall art’

So maybe we should move away from art nude and focus more on ‘figure’. But whatever form is chosen it should be seen that this is a very different skill and ‘niche’ style to just posing nude. And recognise it always only applied to a very small number of models. 

Huw said

Hmm….   That’s a bit complex for me.

Plenty of suitable people out there on Instagram. Trouble is, they are already posting great photos of themselves hiking in spectacular countryside, so they don’t need photographers. 

Plus, there’s a brilliant “non-nude outlet” - IG.

And there’s a big money earner for the outstandingly attractive who are prepared to shoot it….   OF.

Whats missing is somewhere between IG and OF.

Patreon seems to be the platform of choice for the European and US art nude models, how successful that is I've no idea. But not that successful I imagine because OF is about giving attention to subscribers not the images/video and I don't think art nude models are that interested in providing that service. Although I appreciate that there are some with OF accounts.

I hope there isn't a decline in art nude models because this is the year I'm intending to try my hand at "naked chicks on rocks" when the weather improves.

Baldbraveandbeautiful

" I think a lot of newer models are put off by the horror stories of creeps, and possibly also partners having issues with it."

No substitute for experience.

Very probably hit the nail on the head with a single sentence.

I have travelled to some international tours with just hand luggage before, as the majority of shoots I had were art nude.

I might get asked to bring some little things or a clothing/lingerie option too.

Recently I only used some lingerie and 1 outfit on an international tour, but I paid £40 I think for a suitcase to come onboard & barely any of the shoots I had used items I had 😅… I don’t mind as if they’re happy, I am too, but I didn’t need a suitcase really.

Well, until I had a little un-expected shopping spree at TK max there! 😂

Summarising~ I am an up to art nude model, but one of my specialities is art nude, however, I get booked for a range of styles in my full time modelling career.

Baldbraveandbeautiful

I'm not totally sure there's only the two of you - Pretty-B is up your way, for example and whilst she does shoot adult stuff she's also an absolute legend at 'nude in the landscape' type work and someone who's at the top of my list at least.

Edited by Alicia Alexis