Return of a deposit

Gothic Image said

FiL said

I'm also aware of a popular model with well over 400 references who, to my knowledge, failed to return deposits to five photographers after cancelling. It's likely there will be more instances that I'm not aware of. All of her references here are positive.

So those five photographers didn't say anything or report her to Admin?

Well, I would have thought it was fairly obvious they'd said something to me. Probably also to a bunch of other photographers they're acquainted with.

No idea about admin, I didn't ask.

ToggyMcTogface said

It's 2024 this argument should be moved on.

Up to even five years ago it would have been necessary to do a bank transfer if a deposit which is unrecoverable but today if a model works professionally they should be able to accept cards. 

A simple challenger bank business account as a sole trader (no monthly/transaction fees), Stripe or other payment processer (no monthly fee just 1.5% + 20p per transaction) and some accounting software to produce click-to-pay invoices such as Xero/Quickbooks etc (maybe £30 month) would let the model invoice for the deposit and the photographer pay by card for security. 

Would I pay a deposit by card to a model who acts professionally with their finances as above - yes.

Would I pay a bank transfer deposit to a name on the internet - not a chance. 

Models need to act in a professional way if they want deposits and before a model/white knight complains models can't afford £30 month for accounting software then those are the one's who shouldn't be asking for deposits they obviously can't afford to repay.

Whilst that notion sounds great I suspect that many photographers will decline card payment and prefer to pay in cash (no audit trail), causing internet models to think it's not worth their while.

One popular model I work with regularly keeps hitting the limit of cash she's able to pay in at the bank/post office, resulting in difficulties paying her bills at times. She'll happily accept payment by bank transfer after the shoot but there's only a small handful of photographers willing to do so.

Edited by FiL

FiL I think the suggestion is that if the model ran their modelling as a business then some would be happier to pay up front. But if it’s all under the tax radar then why should they help. As for cash limits, it’s perfectly possible to pay massive amounts of cash, it’s just a matter of which bank and whatever the fees might amount to. Certainly not hard enough to get behind on bills.

FiL said

ToggyMcTogface said

It's 2024 this argument should be moved on.

Up to even five years ago it would have been necessary to do a bank transfer if a deposit which is unrecoverable but today if a model works professionally they should be able to accept cards. 

A simple challenger bank business account as a sole trader (no monthly/transaction fees), Stripe or other payment processer (no monthly fee just 1.5% + 20p per transaction) and some accounting software to produce click-to-pay invoices such as Xero/Quickbooks etc (maybe £30 month) would let the model invoice for the deposit and the photographer pay by card for security. 

Would I pay a deposit by card to a model who acts professionally with their finances as above - yes.

Would I pay a bank transfer deposit to a name on the internet - not a chance. 

Models need to act in a professional way if they want deposits and before a model/white knight complains models can't afford £30 month for accounting software then those are the one's who shouldn't be asking for deposits they obviously can't afford to repay.

Whilst that notion sounds great I suspect that many photographers will decline card payment and prefer to pay in cash (no audit trail), causing internet models to think it's not worth their while.

One popular model I work with regularly keeps hitting the limit of cash she's able to pay in at the bank/post office, resulting in difficulties paying her bills at times. She'll happily accept payment by bank transfer after the shoot but there's only a small handful of photographers willing to do so.

Edited by FiL

Ditto, models might not want their real name exposed via a sole trader account.

As ever, the answer is simple.  If you don't want to pay a deposit, just book another model!

ThePictureCompany said

FiL I think the suggestion is that if the model ran their modelling as a business then some would be happier to pay up front. But if it’s all under the tax radar then why should they help. As for cash limits, it’s perfectly possible to pay massive amounts of cash, it’s just a matter of which bank and whatever the fees might amount to. Certainly not hard enough to get behind on bills.

Nonsense.

Paying cash into a bank/post office does not keep it 'under the tax radar'. Cash is the photographer's preference, not the model's, so who is the unprofessional/deceitful party?

The rest of your comments about cash are, quite frankly, laughable. Look up money laundering and the responsibilities placed on banks and other organisations/professions including my own.

Edited by FiL

FiL said

ThePictureCompany said

FiL I think the suggestion is that if the model ran their modelling as a business then some would be happier to pay up front. But if it’s all under the tax radar then why should they help. As for cash limits, it’s perfectly possible to pay massive amounts of cash, it’s just a matter of which bank and whatever the fees might amount to. Certainly not hard enough to get behind on bills.

Nonsense.

Paying cash into a bank/post office does not keep it 'under the tax radar'. Cash is the photographer's preference, not the model's, so who is the unprofessional/deceitful party?

The rest of your comments about cash are, quite frankly, laughable. Look up money laundering and the responsibilities placed on banks and other organisations/professions including my own.

Edited by FiL

Agreed, I'm rather bemused by those photographers who apparently need to hide their expenditure on models.  What are they hiding from whom?

Gothic Image T&A etc from partner/wife would be my guess.

Short answer is it ain’t that deep. This is just an online forum for chat and pictures not a money transfer intermediary.

indemnity said

Gothic Image T&A etc from partner/wife would be my guess.

;-)

FiL said

ThePictureCompany said

FiL I think the suggestion is that if the model ran their modelling as a business then some would be happier to pay up front. But if it’s all under the tax radar then why should they help. As for cash limits, it’s perfectly possible to pay massive amounts of cash, it’s just a matter of which bank and whatever the fees might amount to. Certainly not hard enough to get behind on bills.

Nonsense.

Paying cash into a bank/post office does not keep it 'under the tax radar'. Cash is the photographer's preference, not the model's, so who is the unprofessional/deceitful party?

The rest of your comments about cash are, quite frankly, laughable. Look up money laundering and the responsibilities placed on banks and other organisations/professions including my own.

Edited by FiL

I didnt say cash kept it under the radar, not at all.  I said that the prevous post was more willing to pay a deposit before a shoot if they felt the model was running a proper business.  As for paying money in, if you have a long term occurrence of paying in cash the banks are able to work with you.

I had a model last month actually insist on cash; the first time it's ever happened.

With most models I bank transfer at the end of the shoot once they've changed into whatever they're travelling in.

Gothic Image said

indemnity said

Gothic Image T&A etc from partner/wife would be my guess.

;-)

I don't know how widespread this is, but one certainly hears of it happening. Seems rather sad, IMHO...

Bank transfer isn't always immediate for me. Had a few occurrences it took a few hours to clear. Model insisted I transfer to her again which I did and ended up paying her twice and spent the next 2 weeks chasing her to refund me back the overpayment because she was busy travelling. I find it easier just to pay cash at the end of the shoot.

Gothic Image said

 I'm rather bemused by those photographers who apparently need to hide their expenditure on models.  What are they hiding from whom?

I've always said if you can tell people it's a hobby, if you can't it's a vice. 

Is there anything new to add - or will this thread keep returning from the dead periodically for us to rehash what's been said before?