Bud off a stub

 

MidgePhoto

By MidgePhoto, 1731061625

To support lovely Admin's recent post, while making a properly branching forum looks like a lot of work and would have failure modes of it's own even if we were past "September", how about ...

Adjacent to each post in a thread provide a button to branch off by copying that post into the first post of a new thread, and placing the reply below that, second in the new thread.

The post replied to could be given an indication that a stub was opened off it, which could be followed to that stub.

(Stub from William Gibson the SF author's usage in The Peripheral, forking the worldline in that past and communicating with it. A good short TV adaptation; a better book but less pretty.)

ClickMore 📷 said, 1731061956

Perhaps start your own discussion, rather than go off topic. You can take an idea from a discussion to start your own. You could even make a note in the OP that people are welcome to go off topic.

Sensual Art said, 1731062345

ClickMore 📷 Did you even read what Midge wrote? He's proposing a mechanism which would exactly enable people to start their own discussion on a brand new post, so that the original wouldn't go off-topic, but the mechanism would make it ready to do, and provide for a link between them so other people could see what had sparked the new thought.

Development effort permitting, I quite like the idea (y)

MidgePhoto said, 1731062504

ClickMore 📷 is that well-buried agreement?

The USP here is that the note is implied and automated; and that "go" becomes "bud".

Edited by MidgePhoto

ClickMore 📷 said, 1731062875

Sensual Art said

ClickMore 📷 Did you even read what Midge wrote? He's proposing a mechanism which would exactly enable people to start their own discussion on a brand new post, so that the original wouldn't go off-topic, but the mechanism would make it ready to do, and provide for a link between them so other people could see what had sparked the new thought.

Development effort permitting, I quite like the idea (y)

Of course I read it, but yet again someone  looking for an argument. I doubt Tech will take it up, so suggesting an alternative. Anything that stops the constant diversions by some members causing discussions to stop is good.

Gothic Image said, 1731063434

It sounds a good idea to me!

Russ Freeman (staff) said, 1731065930

Admin and group moderators have the ability to bury replies that are off topic. Maybe it should be used more.

I don't really understand how copying someone else's post reply so you can reply to it off-topic is a benefit when creating a group post is a trivial thing to do already.

Who will be the OP for the new post?

Would there be a limit to creating such posts to prevent them from being used as harassment?

What if I don't want my words copied into a new thread?

How would it prevent people from continuing to discuss the off-topic comment in the original post?

Sensual Art said, 1731067251

Russ Freeman said

Admin and group moderators have the ability to bury replies that are off topic. Maybe it should be used more.

And stifle discussion on a valid topic?

Russ Freeman said

I don't really understand how copying someone else's post reply so you can reply to it off-topic is a benefit when creating a group post is a trivial thing to do already.

It's not trivial - especially on a mobile - if you want to link back to the original subject which sparked your thought.  Midge's suggestion not only makes creating the new post trivial, but includes the link back to the original and, from the original, adds the link to the new side topic.

Russ Freeman said

Who will be the OP for the new post?

The person creating the new side discussion.  If the original gets locked because it descends into chaos, then the new topic doesn't (unless it, too, goes the same way, but it would have to do so independently of the original).  That's most definitely a win.

Russ Freeman said

What if I don't want my words copied into a new thread?

How is this any different from someone quoting you in the same thread?

Russ Freeman said

Would there be a limit to creating such posts to prevent them from being used as harassment?

The same moderation tools are available as are currently.  How is this a different issue from someone quoting inline?

Russ Freeman said

How would it prevent people from continuing to discuss the off-topic comment in the original post?

It won't, but it would give Admin and moderators the extra tool of being able to tell them to create a stub thread and discuss it there. 

Sensual Art said, 1731067496

MidgePhoto said

Adjacent to each post in a thread provide a button to branch off by copying that post into the first post of a new thread, and placing the reply below that, second in the new thread.

I suggest it would be better if the opening post of the new thread were a quote of the original and then the new reply as a reply to that, all in the OP of the "stubbed" post.

MidgePhoto said

The post replied to could be given an indication that a stub was opened off it, which could be followed to that stub.

Naming things is important.  Indeed, it's said to be one of the two difficult problems in computer science*

Could I suggest that the button be named "Off-topic reply", to encourage people to use it freely?

______

* The other difficult problem is knowing when to invalidate a cache, and out-by-one errors.

Allesandro B said, 1731067746

I don't think people wouldn't use it, it'd take their oxygen away, they'd prefer their comment/opinion to be seen on the existing post for other people to see.  I'm a big fan of threading but that would require a new template and there would still be people who don't want their comment to be hidden away in a thread.

Russ Freeman (staff) said, 1731068325

I'd like to see people using it right now, by copying and quoting and creating a new post using existing tools.

If the technique gains traction then we will make it easier to do.

MidgePhoto said, 1731068900

Russ Freeman

If there were a mechanism for removing a post which is at best tangentially related to the main stem to somewhere else for that conversation to continue elsewhere, I submit that would be a gain, and render removal of a post a less nuclear option - thus tactically more useful to mods.

Computers are said to be good for automatically doing a set of things each if which could be done by a person, and being more reliable at it.

The breadcrumb trail each way is the slightly special sauce .

It would also be possible to display stubs differently from stems, in recent threads. Either with a delay of a day/week/month or not at all - the stub accessed only via the portal post it hangs from - or as subheadings from the stem thread, which I suspect you'd regard as more work than it is worth.

The OP for the new stub is the post which is bud/replied to.

It should have a link back to the earlier thread, possibly to the top of that, possibly to the "This post has been pruned and replanted because it is an off-topic-shoot, follow this to read or reply, please stay on topic here".

You probably didn't want your words deleted and a snotty remark about not writing like that. Which do you prefer less (a question people demonstrably often not good at answering, ah well)

Seriously: the librarian puts your book on a different shelf they think it belongs on Vs the librarian burns your book for being Bad.

One you can be cool about, the other you hit 451°F, much good that it does you.

To alter people's behaviour from actions you prefer they eschew to actions you regard as virtuous, or less lacking in virtue, you have limited classes of actions, none of the subtle ones being entirely proof against the person determined to pursue the opposite of virtue.

(Against those, taking off and nuking them from orbit must be tempting, but does cause Riples)

1. Ask them not to. You can nag everyone every month, every thread, every post, or ask them to not do it again.

You can tell them.

You can remove their access.

Alternatively and separately and concurrently, you can give them an easy way to do the thing you prefer or hate less or which leads to less nuisance if not to greater utility: a button which buds this fascinating rejoinder into another sub thread. (With a copy, like the default complete quote you offer for replies but the attributes attached)

A little finesse would steer all replies gently that way as well.

So "prevent" is hard, but encourage is less hard.

If the mod repotted the comment as a new sub thread, then it won't be there for people to reply to, a stronger option than a response as a bud. The mod, perhaps even the maker of that nodal comment, might come later to bury it.

I think you have tools and an attitude to harassment already, I'd suggest having provided points to branch the mods would have less of their time spent trying to stop derailments on the main line, and could ... have a nice cup of tea, or seek out the unrighteous in general. It would be quite a subtle sort of harassment, I think, so much so I wonder if it would even work.

Russ Freeman (staff) said, 1731069236

Well, let's see the technique being used manually for a while to see how often it is used and how popular it might be.

MidgePhoto said, 1731070916

Hmm.

Stu H said, 1731074289

Russ Freeman

Will you be publicising this preference - say in a new Admin thread, and on the blog - or leaving it to fail because no-one knows that this is the new thing to do?

Huw said, 1731075247

Russ Freeman said

I'd like to see people using it right now, by copying and quoting and creating a new post using existing tools.

If the technique gains traction then we will make it easier to do.


I was very tempted to do exactly this on a recent thread, maybe half an hour before you made the suggestion.

Easy enough to do, and should prevent off-topic thread drift.

Thanks.